15 replies to this topic

[Old chook]

I've started doing intervals again as my achilles finally feel they can take it. I'm disturbed to discover I've acquired a rev limiter in the meantime.

Problem is, I've started with some standard formulae, which don't feel right and I'm not sure how to alter them.

I am doing 800m repeats. 9 of them. I'm supposed to do the slow bits for 400m, taking the same time to complete the 400 as the 800. The problem is, I've well and truly recovered long before I get to the next fast bit. Even by the last rep. I've upped the recovery pace to 60% of fast speed, but this still isn't doing the trick.

I understand that what I'm supposed to be doing is increasing my time spent at VO2 max. What should I do? Run faster for the recovery? Run 200-300m recovery rather than 400? Run the fast bits faster? Do more reps?

I want to run a faster marathon, not a faster 10km. The rev limiter is leg speed, not huff and puff.



I'm sorry if this particular question has been covered. I did do a search, fruitlessly, but if I missed the relevant thread, someone just direct me to it please.

[BostonCalling]

Hi Old Chook,

I would run these on a track if possible. Run the 800's at your 5km Goal Pace with a 200m recovery. The recovery is a float about 30-45secs slower then your 5km goal pace. See how you go. Good luck with it.

[TrackRunner]

the good thing about intervals is that when ( and only when ) they get to easy you have the choice of either reducing the recovery, increasing the speed of the interval or adding extra intervals.
Remember the last interval should be able to be done slightly faster than the first, if you cant then slow them down. The idea is to keep each interval around the same time and as the weeks progres it will get easyer and then say once a month "tweak" it to keep you at VO2max. nothing gets you fitter, quicker than intervals, but i only do them once a week and i never do more than 10% of my total weekly klm in any one interval session. I mean if you are on 50klm per week then 6 x 800mtrs (5k) would be fine. Another way to vary intervals to stop them getting boring is what my dad calls an interval ladder. the pace stays the same but the recoveries get shorter something like
1200 ,4minjog, 1000, 3minjog, 800 2minjog, 4 x 400 1min rest to finish with. Hope this helps

Edited by LOVE22RUN, 25 June 2009 - 06:36 PM.

[EnduranceMachine]

LOVE22RUN, on Jun 25 2009, 06:34 PM, said:

the good thing about intervals is that when ( and only when ) they get to easy you have the choice of either reducing the recovery, increasing the speed of the interval or adding extra intervals.
Remember the last interval should be able to be done slightly faster than the first, if you cant then slow them down. The idea is to keep each interval around the same time and as the weeks progres it will get easyer and then say once a month "tweak" it to keep you at VO2max. nothing gets you fitter, quicker than intervals, but i only do them once a week and i never do more than 10% of my total weekly klm in any one interval session. I mean if you are on 50klm per week then 6 x 800mtrs (5k) would be fine. Another way to vary intervals to stop them getting boring is what my dad calls an interval ladder. the pace stays the same but the recoveries get shorter something like
1200 ,4minjog, 1000, 3minjog, 800 2minjog, 4 x 400 1min rest to finish with. Hope this helps

Wouldn't It Be Different For Each Distance Say Like Me Trainng For Mostly 5k And Cross Country Compared To Say You Doing 800meter Racing?

[TRAVY]

Love reps. The harder the better

[aura111]

Agree with what the others have said, especially about considering intervals in the broader scheme of a training program - cultivate balance in all things.

Reckon if your heart rate and breathing and watch are telling you that 400m recovery is too much then try 200m instead. Your legs will tell you if that is/isn't enough.

Myself, I'm hoping to get back to my regular interval in mara training session which was one week 10x 800m with 200m recovery in between; and the next week 5 x 1600 with 400m recovery. Got round 6 x 800 on Tuesday but held back a little as long midweek run was on Wed this week.

Love doing intervals so hard that everything goes black except for the white lines on the track- such a head rush! Dry heaves a sure sign you're working hard enough.

Driving home after in the car with the serious after run stinkiness isn't so great though

[TrackRunner]

Finny3, on Jun 25 2009, 06:43 PM, said:

Wouldn't It Be Different For Each Distance Say Like Me Trainng For Mostly 5k And Cross Country Compared To Say You Doing 800meter Racing?

yes you are right finny. My coach reckons that the length of the interval should be roughly one quarter of the distance/race training for. ie a 5k runner may do 1klm intervals or even longer "cruise" intervals a 1500mtr runner may do 4 or 500 mtr intervals at goal race pace etc

also finny i notice on youre blog you do around 120klm a week sometimes, and a long run of up to 25klm for a 5k runner thats a lot. Top world class adult runners might do say 150klm a week so be carefull, a 25klm long run is like marathon training. if you run for half an hr one day and then a full hour the next day you dont double the benifits by running double the time or distance. you do get extra benifit by running longer but staleness and overuse injury is a real concern. Work speed as much as you can while still growing dude. when i was 13 i did 30klm a week, 14 - 40klm a week and now im 15 i do average 50klm a week. And from only 50klm a week i still get good aerobic gains, more is not always better, im sure ill get to 125klm a week but not before 18. Each year builds on the one before, im in no hurry 3klm PB is currently 8:55 of 40klm a week ?

[Old chook]

Thanks, folks.

The gist seems to be cut the recovery time down. Righto. I'll see if that gets me to the required prevomit stage.

BTW, Love22run, if the length of the interval should be 1/4 of the distance training for, your coach would be advocating 10km intervals for me. Maybe he/she means up to a max of 1600m.

[TrackRunner]

Old chook, on Jun 26 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

Thanks, folks.

The gist seems to be cut the recovery time down. Righto. I'll see if that gets me to the required prevomit stage.

BTW, Love22run, if the length of the interval should be 1/4 of the distance training for, your coach would be advocating 10km intervals for me. Maybe he/she means up to a max of 1600m.

Sorry yes yur right about the 1600 mtrs, i was refering to middle distance 800 up to 5k. Also should mention that i have been told that intervals when done right are the toughest workout you should do so once a week is enough and that a interval session shouldnt be more than 10% of total weekly mileage. Like somebody on 50 klm a week shouldnt do more than 5klm in any one interval session. makes sense

Edited by LOVE22RUN, 26 June 2009 - 10:47 PM.

[RodN]

Does loving intervals mean you are genetically disposed to shorter distances? I seem to really get the most out of my intervals too - it's just great fun pushing myself to the limits strangely enough. Maybe it just means there a masochist in me

What kind of interval sets would a 10k runner do? I had mine setup as 400/800/1200 over a 3 week period then 3k TT on the fourth week. Also a tempo session and a long run on other days.

[lactatehead]

People should be careful about interval training. They are very seductive because they have an immediate effect but they also have a flip side. Every club runner will know people who do lots of interval training but rarely race well. This is because they are putting all their eggs into one basket and interval training alone will not make you a good runner. It is very demanding on your body and can undermine your aerobic fitness by lowering you blood PH levels. I think people should put in blocks of interval training leading up to an important race and not just do them every week. There are other forms of quality training that you can do each week that will not undermine your overall fitness, ie 100m strides with 100m jog or 3k tempo runs. Since I have adopted Lydiard`s training principals, I have stopped doing intervals altogether. Instead, I do 4 weeks of repetition running at a prescribed time in the cycle. They force me to run much faster than I would if I was doing interval training.

[bruncle]

Old chook: I'm not sure why you're doing VO2 max intervals for a marathon anyway..? You want to be improving your lactate threshold and muscular endurance, so anything faster than tempo pace is not all that useful for you. A good workout would be a 15k tempo run, or the equivalent in cruise intervals (so 10x1600m with 200m float recovery).

[Old chook]

bruncle, on Jun 27 2009, 02:49 PM, said:

Old chook: I'm not sure why you're doing VO2 max intervals for a marathon anyway..? You want to be improving your lactate threshold and muscular endurance, so anything faster than tempo pace is not all that useful for you. A good workout would be a 15k tempo run, or the equivalent in cruise intervals (so 10x1600m with 200m float recovery).

Coz I can't accelerate beyond a certain speed, which I find really annoying.
You're right though.

[DrJH]

I'd try to do them faster.

[bruncle]

Yeah, try incorporating some striders into your daily runs or do 5x100m with full recovery focussing on form. Leg speed is good to have. It'll help you improve your biomechanics and efficiency even at Marathon Pace.

[Colin]

lactatehead, on Jun 27 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

It is very demanding on your body and can undermine your aerobic fitness by lowering you blood PH levels.

How does the pH get lowered, how low, how long does it remain lower and how does it 'undermine aerobic fitness' ?

cheers