(wa) 6 Inch Ultra Offroad 20/12/2009, ultra trails run Options

[trailblazer777]

There is a poll about whether to have an 0430 or 0530 start at the 2009 Six Inch "45km" trails run on WAMC msgbrd...
Its @ http://wamc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=...=607&page=1


6 inch is also on Facebook... @
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34190987803

enter the 2009 6 inch @ http://www.6inchtrailmarathon.com/

6 inch FAQ;
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/7549/run6inchfaq.html

2008 results and links to photos
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/7549/ru...hotos6inch.html

Nates 6 inch blog @
http://sixinchmarathon.blogspot.com/

This post has been edited by trailblazer777: Nov 30 2009, 01:49 AM

[turtle-runner]

Looks interesting and a possibility .... is there accomadation / camp grounds near the start?

[loubee]

TR I am super interested in doing this one. Will have a better idea of the reality in a fortnight

[knoddie]

Great to see people interested in this race. It's a fantastic run, and a great introduction to trails races / ultras.

Turtle, last year a lot of us stayed at the Dwellingup Caravan Park, and we shared cars to get to the start. Those that left their cars at the start then got a lift back after the race finish in Dwellingup.

[trailblazer777]

They have some chalets too
http://www.murray.wa.gov.au/community/dwel...tandcaravanpark
http://www.check-in.com.au/WA/Dwellingup_C...aravan_Park.htm

[knoddie]

As a few people are putting up their hand for this one, I thought it would be good to get a group thing going where we can let each other know about trail runs that are happening. As we get closer to 6 Inch, I'm sure there will be a number of runs on the actual course, but some of us run trails on a pretty regular basis, so if you're interested in joining in, we'd love to have you along.

Tomorrow's (Saturday) plan is to run from Jarrahdale South along the Munda Biddi trail. I'm running 35k, Nate's running 70k. Meet at the Jarrahdale General store @ 6am. BYO hydration.

We also run every Wednesday, normally in Bold Park for 13k starting @ 6pm. In summer we'll alternate this with some runs on the beach at the water's edge from City Beach to Trigg and return for about 12k.

Let me know if you're interested in any of these. PM me a mobile number if you're planning to come along so i can let you know of any last minute changes.

This post has been edited by knoddie: Sep 4 2009, 04:07 PM

[LTLFTC]

Few questions
What does "fat ass" mean?
Can you have someone riding along with you or is that cheating??
It is the 20/12/09 yes?
What type of shoes do you wear for trail running.
What is a good hydration pack.
How hard is it to get lost
Cheers

[knoddie]

What does "fat ass" mean?

It means it is an unofficial event. Just a group of people getting together for a run. No entry fee, but don't expect insurance. Also usually means it's self supported, like no aid stations, however with 6 Inch we did have aid stations in two locations last year. If it wasn't for certain trail nazis we would make this official. Don't get me started.

Can you have someone riding along with you or is that cheating??

As this is Fat Ass, there are no rules. I don't think anyone would frown on a runner being accompanied by a cyclist.

It is the 20/12/09 yes?

Yes

What type of shoes do you wear for trail running.

Depends on the trails. On very technical (difficult) trails I use trail shoes. I ran 6 Inch last year in Asics 2130 road shoes, and they were fine.

What is a good hydration pack.

You'll need a 2 litre pack. You can get cheaper ones, but be careful as I have had bladders split, which is far from fun when you are 20km from the next water stop.

Camelbak is used by many. I have a 3 litre one of these for very long runs. I use a Deuter 2 litre pack on most runs, and will use this at 6 inch. Nathan uses a brand called Nathan. I guess if there was a brand called Rob, i would use that one also. Anaconda is good for this stuff. Wait until they have one of their "40% off all Camelbak weeks", which is often.

How hard is it to get lost

Definitely suggest running parts of the course beforehand. If you have a Garmin, can provide a route file to follow. Get a map. The course will be marked with flour at the harder sections, but even with this, people still get lost. It's part of the fun.

This post has been edited by knoddie: Sep 4 2009, 05:30 PM

[anampofepistat]

Knoddie may disagree, but you don't necessarily need a hydration pack for 6 inch as you do for some other off road ultras and training runs.

In 2007 I had a camelbak but hardly used it, and felt it really slowed me down. Last year I bought a waistbelt which held a 600ml bottle horizontally at the back ($20 from Target) and this worked fine. With 2 drink stations over the 45k there's plenty of chances to refuel. A proper fuelbelt would be fine too.

I'm pretty sure the winners of both the last 2 years have run with just a drink bottle in their hand, but I may be wrong.

Epi.

[runningoutoftime]

Am really interested in doing this although running in the heat will be a challenge for me..but hey whats the point unless it is a challenge..right?
Not quite up to joining you guys on 35km runs yet since the C2S injuries haven't yet healed but will be reading the blogs with interest to see future training runs. I am guessing hill training is essential?
i just love the thought of running offroad for a change although my sense of direction is nil..not even sure I am capable of using a Garmin..I am technologically challenged!

[loubee]

yay RunningOutoftime! I think this will be great, particulary a 4:30 start.

I am definitely up for a change of city scenery and will be heading out on a trail run next saturday. Would love to do some runs Knoddie and will pm you in the next few weeks once I get a little practice in.

[serena]

What counts as trail? Does an unsealed country road count?

[kathmandu]

What counts as trail? Does an unsealed country road count?

yeah they are ok, but if theres traffic its revolting eating dust.

i reckon your best bet initially is to go to one of the national parks - john forrest or walyunga or avon valley. then you get the maps at the ranger hut and the trails are all nicely signposted.

once you feel comfortable with those, try sections of the bibbulmen or munda bidda.

theres some great books too with trails around perth youd never know existed, i got mine from the map centre in the city.

[knoddie]

Epi: So that's why you were an hour faster than me!

Runningoutoftime: Brilliant. Last year was not hot, got to around 24 from memory. That given, late December could throw up anything.

Loubee: That would be great. Note I am now tapering for the Waterous 100 mile race on 26 Sept. I'm doing 25km on the trails at night next weekend, then probably just some road stuff the week after. After the 100 miler I have a week of recovery, and will then get serious again the weekend of 11 October.

Serena: Most of the races include some unsealed road. A lot of it is on single track trails, and as Psychochicken has said, it's best to train for these on real trails. Eagle View trail at John Forrest is a great trail to get started on, it's only about 17km. Just remember to keep your eyes at your feet...falling can hurt.

This post has been edited by knoddie: Sep 6 2009, 07:43 PM

[Keely]

i reckon your best bet initially is to go to one of the national parks - john forrest or walyunga or avon valley. then you get the maps at the ranger hut and the trails are all nicely signposted.

Oooh how great would a run around John Forest be in wildflower season?

Serena - why don't you try Rebolt park? it's really close to your place, has some nice trails and there's not really any way you can get lost!

[serena]

All sounds good to me, thanks guys.

[runningoutoftime]

Thinking back to my chats with Serena about our lack of direction sense then we are both definitely in need of the marked trails at this point......I can see us having fun!!!!

[knoddie]

Trail run this weekend at Walyunga National Park for approx 20k of hilly terrain. Meet at the park gate @ 7am on Saturday morning. PM me if you're interested in coming along.

Bold Park next Wednesday at 6pm.

This post has been edited by knoddie: Sep 10 2009, 11:57 AM

[djefa]

This one is piquing my interest.

Is there a course map anywhere online?

Knoddie, would like to come on one of the trail runs soon. Am off to check out some Balinese running trails for the next few weeks, but if you keep posting the runs, I'll turn up in Oct.

[rubberchicken]

Howdy Knoddie and Co. Definitely keen to give this event a go. I am finally starting to be able to get some running time and some km's on the board after a bit of a forced lay off. Just have to organise a shift swap or two which shouldn't be too much hassle. Hopefully I will be able to get onto some trails with you all sometime soon.

[knoddie]

Djefa: I'll post up a course from my Garmin of last year's run. Would be great to have you along for a run.

RC, great to hear from you. You will love this race.

TRAIL RUNS

No trail runs this weekend, and no Bold Park run next Wednesday as I'm on my last week of taper.

Saturday 26 September: Join me in 100 miles from the Dwellingup Cararvan Park at 5am. Along the Munda Biddi and Waterous Trails. Allow about 24 hours. PM me if you're interested.

This post has been edited by knoddie: Sep 17 2009, 02:32 PM

[Nate]

Hmm 100 miles in 24hrs - I think I might join you Knoddie!!!

[knoddie]

Hmm 100 miles in 24hrs - I think I might join you Knoddie!!!

Nope, you'll just tear ahead like usual.

[knoddie]

The 6 Inch Course

[trailblazer777]

Do you have any takers for 50 miles this year at waterous I wonder? (not me I'm getting ready for Melbourne Marathon, but I might come and watch perhaps...)...should set up a car with a big TV screen on the back of it so you can watch the AFL grand final while running...

also I think we should organise some 6 inch Recon runs like in past years for maybe late October early November around that 20k-35k mark...so any new aspirants can experience the course, and old hands can get ready mentally for it again...

This post has been edited by trailblazer777: Sep 18 2009, 09:34 AM

[rubberchicken]

Do you have any takers for 50 miles this year at waterous I wonder? (not me I'm getting ready for Melbourne Marathon, but I might come and watch perhaps...)...should set up a car with a big TV screen on the back of it so you can watch the AFL grand final while running...

I really wanted to be ready and able to have a go at the 50miler but I am simply not up to it at this stage (and rostered to work that day). It's a shame really as there aren't too many ultra events here in the West and I would like to be a part of each and every one but thats the way it goes I guess. Good luck to all who enter and I am looking forward to hearing the race reports.

As for the 6 Inch, I doubt I will be able to do too many (if any) recon runs in but I sure will try. I will most likely do a dash to the start line first thing in the morning and return to Perth that evening so I will check back on this thread closer to the date to see if any other time challenged CR's wants to join me.

[knoddie]

Do you have any takers for 50 miles this year at waterous I wonder? (not me I'm getting ready for Melbourne Marathon, but I might come and watch perhaps...)...should set up a car with a big TV screen on the back of it so you can watch the AFL grand final while running...

also I think we should organise some 6 inch Recon runs like in past years for maybe late October early November around that 20k-35k mark...so any new aspirants can experience the course, and old hands can get ready mentally for it again...

Agree on the recon runs TB. No takers for the 50 mile this year. The TV would be great...see you out there!

[LTLFTC]

The 6 Inch Course

Is there any way to get that onto my garmin (310xt) as a course??

[knoddie]

Is there any way to get that onto my garmin (310xt) as a course??

Click on the "Summary" tab, scroll down to download, name the file, and click the "To Garmin GPS" TCX file option.

Note just before the finish in Dwellingup, before Banksiadale Road we missed a turn, and had to double back for about 100 metres, this is shown on the map if you zoom right in.

This post has been edited by knoddie: Sep 18 2009, 01:33 PM

[kathmandu]

The 6 Inch Course

ripper, cheers knoddie.

im heading down to dwellingup for the weekend, i'll go have a run on the course.

id like to think i will do 6 inch this year, but not saying definitely yet, firmly depends on how i like/survive GOW.

[LTLFTC]

Click on the "Summary" tab, scroll down to download, name the file, and click the "To Garmin GPS" TCX file option.

Note just before the finish in Dwellingup, before Banksiadale Road we missed a turn, and had to double back for about 100 metres, this is shown on the map if you zoom right in.

Thanks. Is that a toilet break at about 22km just before Higgins Road?

Here it is on Map My Run
http://www.mapmyrun.com/run/australia/-dwe...125324561510922

still in negotiations with the war office, and my legs, about this one.

This post has been edited by LTLFTC: Sep 18 2009, 01:52 PM

[knoddie]

Thanks. Is that a toilet break at about 22km just before Higgins Road?

There was an aid station there, however I do remember doing a little detour through the bush at that point.

[Craig Dufty]

I'm pretty sure the winners of both the last 2 years have run with just a drink bottle in their hand, but I may be wrong.

I won last year using a fuel belt with 4 bottles (about 200mL each) and swapped 3 empty bottles for full ones at half way.
It was very cool last year (the first thing I did after finishing was put a jumper on) but I don't think I would carry any more on a hotter day.
I'm not intending to run this year.

[knoddie]

id like to think i will do 6 inch this year, but not saying definitely yet, firmly depends on how i like/survive GOW.

Heaps of time between those two! And this is a walk in the park compared to GOW, in fact you could use it as a cool down. Enjoy the run on the weekend Kathy.

[djefa]

Thanks for the map posts kids! Much appreciated.

[trailblazer777]

There is long drop toilets (absolute luxury facilities in this part of the world) at Whittakers (about 7k? in), and at Marriners ? (might have the name wrong) Camping area at about 40k mark, also at Oakley Dam (bit of a detour ) about 32km...and premium normal toilets at the finish...

as far as I remember none at the start unless you break into the Servo, know someone who doesnt mind you visiting their house in North Dandalup at 4am) hahaha...

other than that, its a case of dig your own......Ive been carrying toiletpaper in my hydrationpak for a few years now, but thankfully have only needed it a few times, although I did waste 7min at the Mariners longdrop last year...

Drinks it really depends on a lot of factors;
(a) **how fast you are**. (in Craig Dufty and Anampithists case we are talking around the 3hr 30-4hr 30 mark...in many others its more like 5-6hrs or longer (7hrs for me the last 2 times, although my ankle injury flaring up had a lot to do with it last year)...
( **the weather** last year it was cool and not very humid...I remember in 2005 it was hot! towards the end, and extra fluids were needed as a result especially if you are not in the leading group...
© **How good the support is**...If you have someone (recruit friends/family) looking after your hydration during the race, you dont have to carry as much......in 2008 especially we had half a dozen people helping with race support and drinks so most people even the two Craigs (1st and 3rd) were able to refill at halfway...in the first 2-3 years, we didn't have a lot of confirmed support people so it was better to not bank on that...so thats why I recommended hydration paks or fuel belts for all...

Last year I ran the first 21k with a powerade or two in the hand, and no hydration pak, then strapped on a hydration pak for the last 24-25k, but ended up ditching it later on...

-make no mistake the last 13-14k can be tough if its hot, and you are still out there 5 hours in which most runners without a sub 4 hr marathon would be...in that case the 21k and/or 35k? drink stops are crucial to avoid severe dehydration in that scenario...if the weather is like it was in 2008 again, not as much of an issue...

so I recommend;
1. have extra drinks available (better to have 1 or 2 more than you need than the other way around).
2. fuel belt or hydration pak can be very helpful...especially as there are sections of this **hilly** course where you are on your own for 10k or so...and if its hot and you cant run sub 6 min K's (on steep uphill and downhill) all the way you will need it!
3. recruit 1 friend or family person to help with your drinks if you can...
4. consider a refill at 17k, 21k, and/or 35k strategy, to reduce how much you have to carry with you (put in basket carried in main support car)...

I intend being there as support or maybe even to race it again...

We should start organising some Recon runs of the course in October/November...
So anyone keen, set a time and date, and where you want to start (out and back for 20-35k is usually a good option...and post it here or on WAMC msgbrd, and hopefully we can get a large group together to go explore the course, especially once Melbourne and Rotto Marathons are done...

Also I am still a big fan of the Saturday morning runs from Darlington, which the Comrades people and others (like me) try to get to...some good trails and hills around that whole John Forrest national park railway heritage trails area...Usually about 20-30 or more of us up there every saturday morning, so anyone keen to come get in touch with Gary Carlton, WAMC, or text me, email me on a friday night, I can let you know what runs are happening...usually about 3-4 different groups each week...

All the best to all the 2009 6 inch aspirants...

This post has been edited by trailblazer777: Sep 20 2009, 05:17 PM

[kathmandu]

Heaps of time between those two! And this is a walk in the park compared to GOW, in fact you could use it as a cool down. Enjoy the run on the weekend Kathy.

hmmmmmm....we will see.

but wow, how good is it down there! top running.

even bumped into MarkB and Suzy, both out for a leisurely 100k mountain bike ride.

[Bernadette]

Knoddie is tapering for the Waterous 100 Miler next weekend, but I'm pacing him at the end, so I'm keeping my mileage up. I'll be at Bold Park on Wednesday night the 23rd if anyone is interested. Probably about 12k (plus I'll run there and back from Wembley, I imagine).

[Coooops]

Knoddie is tapering for the Waterous 100 Miler next weekend, but I'm pacing him at the end, so I'm keeping my mileage up. I'll be at Bold Park on Wednesday night the 23rd if anyone is interested. Probably about 12k (plus I'll run there and back from Wembley, I imagine).

Hey Bernadette,

Just heard from knoddie, 125kms fabulous achievement.

I'm planning on bringing family and camper trailer to dwellingup to assist with course marking and prevent unwanted short or long cuts!

Keen for recon runs once Rotto is out of the way.

See you out there.

Coops.

[dave1678]

Hi Guys
I know it would be great to get out on the actual course for the people who don't know it but before then I'm proposing a training camp down at the Stirling Ranges one weekend in November perhaps (6-8th). This is a draft schedule:

Friday- Travel from metro area to Williams where my parents have a farm.

7pm- 30min run

Saturday- travel to Stirlings arriving about 8.30am- ~2hour run Chester pass rd- bluff knoll carpark & return

11pm- Short hike either Ridge-top walk, toolbrunup peak or mt Trio ~3-4 hours including picnic lunch

2pm-Check into accomodation either stirling range retreat, toobrunup campground or mt trio caravan park

5pm- Travel to Bluff knoll carpark for handicap race to summit (3.1k 20min +) jog down

R&R

Sunday- 2-3hours Firebreak track + side track up towards mountains or open to better suggestions for any of the runs.

10am-Checkout head back to Perth

[dave1678]

Come on guys you're working too hard!

[geoffa]

Dave

I would love to do that plan, but father-daughter camp takes priority. If anyone is in Moore River that weekend, beware!

Geoffa


This post has been edited by geoffa: Oct 6 2009, 09:24 AM

[knoddie]

TRAIL RUN EMAIL LIST

A number of people have asked me to let them know when group trail runs are happening, so I've decided to start a weekly email that advises people of locations /distance/ times for trail runs for the following week. People can email me their intended runs by PM Wednesday, I'll then collate and send out by PM Thursday. It'll work similar to the Hills Group emails if anyone is familiar with those.

If you would like to be on the list, send me your email address via Private Message.

Early notification for this weekend: To be confirmed, but looks like being around 25km point to point on the Munda Biddi from Brookton Highway on Sunday at around 10:30am. Join the list and I'll send out confirmed details on Thursday.

Rob

This post has been edited by knoddie: Oct 6 2009, 03:22 PM

[trailblazer777]

Great idea again Rob!
please add my email to your list!

This post has been edited by trailblazer777: Oct 15 2009, 06:21 PM

[knoddie]

Great idea again Rob!
please add my email to your list!

I need an email address TB!

[knoddie]

This weekend there’s a group of us who are going to start getting serious about getting ready for the 6 Inch.

The plan is to run 25km at Walyunga National Park, or you can do a 20km option if you wish.

Day: Sunday 18 October
Distance: 25km
Likely time: 3 hours
Where: Walyunga National Park, Walyunga Road, off Great Northern Highway, Upper Swan. Meet at the park gate (before the ranger’s hut)
Time: 6:50 am for 7am start

It’s going to be warmish, so don’t forget your water.

If you’re coming along let me know

[trailblazer777]

This weekend there’s a group of us who are going to start getting serious about getting ready for the 6 Inch.

The plan is to run 25km at Walyunga National Park, or you can do a 20km option if you wish.

Day: Sunday 18 October
Distance: 25km
Likely time: 3 hours
Where: Walyunga National Park, Walyunga Road, off Great Northern Highway, Upper Swan. Meet at the park gate (before the ranger’s hut)
Time: 6:50 am for 7am start

It’s going to be warmish, so don’t forget your water.

If you’re coming along let me know

I'll try and make it to this one...
Ive sent you a private message on the WAMC msgbrd with one of my primary emails...

[trailblazer777]

BIG NEWS is that a RECON RUN is on Saturday 7th November @ 0630. (but get there earlier than that) at corner of SCARP rd and North Spur Rd. Plan is to head out for 20-30km on an out and back course...

So grab yourself a MundaBiddi Map 2, bring your hydration pak or fuel belt, or two powerades, (one in each hand), maybe a mobile phone with coverage in that area, and maybe (optional) write down an emergency contact person and their number(its a bit remote, and people have got lost out there many times so far), for one of us to take note of and lots of guts, and be there if you dare!... Also have plenty of drinks for when you get back...It will test you...to get more of an idea of what to expect check some of the photos on the 6 inch trails run facebook group or follow the links from my faq link in my signature below...

Feel free to organise your own recon runs if the time above does not suit, and there should be 2 or 3 more RECON runs planned anyway before the event...

any questions contact Dave K or me (0439 817 518)...or Rob D. or Nathan, or Bernadette should be able to answer most of your questions too...

Well I mapped out a 9 week program for this one yesterday, I've decided I want to do it again (silly me!), so 6 inch numero 4 for me...so its time to start getting those long runs going again after almost a 2 week break after the Melbourne Marathon.
we should do a rollcall see who is doing 6 inch this year soon, maybe even see our first relay teams???

[dave1678]

I'm in

[djefa]

I'm tentatively planning on this one. Saw my physio this morning (knee) and he didn't rule it out, so thats good enough for me! 2-3 weeks recovery, 4 weeks of training, 1 week of taper. Lets see how that goes.