36 replies to this topic

[southy]

I can't believe the changes they have made to their events. I registered for teh CC race (Tuesday), 5000m (thursday) and 1500m (Saturday). Now they have gone & changed the 1500m to Tuesday , at the same time as the cross country race. Of t he 25 women in my age group alone registered for the 1500m, 14 of them are also registyered in teh cc race.
That's over 50% of your female middle distance & distance runners affected by this 'minor' change.


I booked my accommodation based on the draft schedule, and planned my training over the last 3 months for the events that I targeted. I paid a $ 220 registration fee and about $1000 in accommodation costs to compete at these Games. This is really poor organisation in my opinion.
I can not see myself ever competing in another Games event if this is the way they treat their competitors. I will target other competitions instead.

I expected minor changes to the draft schedule but these are major changes. I realise they are overwhelmed with entries but why not start earlier or finish later in the day?

Anyone competing best check the schedule & complain very loudly if you are affected.

[DrJH]

I wonder what the schedule for the cross country races actually is. It says 2.00 pm, but I presume they won't run everybody at once.

[southy]

I don't know the schedule, but I would expect that starting that late in teh day, there may be two race , one male & one female.

I can't believe they are waiting til 2pm to start an 8k cc race in Sydney in October. Doesn't seem to be a lot of concern for the competitors here. Why not start the cc races early in the day, esecially for the older age groups?

[Tesso]

Thanks for pointing that out Southy, I probably wouldn't have noticed. I'm not really expecting to make the final of the 1500m so its not likely to effect me but I sure can understand your annoyance.

One of my training partners (also 50-54 category) was on the waitlist for the 1500m, she told me this morn they'd just contacted her and she's now in. She signed up for & was accepted in the x-country weeks ago.

[HillsAths1]

Tesso does that mean that Ann will now have to do some secret training with Sean?

[rachinaus]

Looks like I will just be able to pop down after work to knock out my 1500m heat and 5000m final (no heat). Good job its just for fun - wasn't planning to take the day off for half an hours running. HM and 10km on the weekends so all fits together nicely.

Ditto Tesso - no likelihood of reaching 1500m finals

[Tesso]

HillsAths1, on Sep 16 2009, 01:23 PM, said:

Tesso does that mean that Ann will now have to do some secret training with Sean?

Hey, don't give her any ideas ... she's fast enough already!

[Solace]

rachinaus, on Sep 16 2009, 01:29 PM, said:

Looks like I will just be able to pop down after work to knock out my 1500m heat and 5000m final (no heat). Good job its just for fun - wasn't planning to take the day off for half an hours running. HM and 10km on the weekends so all fits together nicely.

Ditto Tesso - no likelihood of reaching 1500m finals

Where is the HM on the program??? I simply cannot find it!

[DrJH]

Solace, on Sep 16 2009, 06:10 PM, said:

Where is the HM on the program??? I simply cannot find it!

It was on the final Sunday morning, but seems to have disappeared from the latest version of the program.

[Solace]

DrJH, on Sep 16 2009, 06:44 PM, said:

It was on the final Sunday morning, but seems to have disappeared from the latest version of the program.

What time was it listed as starting? On the earlier versions of the program that is.

[nando]

Version 19 of the schedule (dated 15th Sept) is now up on the WM web site. The half marathon is listed as starting at 7am.

[Solace]

nando, on Sep 17 2009, 09:00 AM, said:

Version 19 of the schedule (dated 15th Sept) is now up on the WM web site. The half marathon is listed as starting at 7am.

Far out man. That's so bloody early for those of us who have to travel in.

Thanks for that.

[southy]

So now they are up to version 19?

[nando]

southy, on Sep 17 2009, 09:35 AM, said:

So now they are up to version 19?

Yep. And there was only a few days between version 18 and 19, so you could assume there will be a few more changes yet.

[southy]

This is the standard reply everyone seems to be getting.

We apologise for the inconvenience caused but there is simply no way we can attempt to create a final schedule without clashes. We hope you can appreciate with over 9000 events, some are inevitable.

Kind regards,

IMO , changing the days of the events is a major change, not a minor change. They changed the date of the event by 5 days! YOu don't have to be a genius to suspect that women who do the 1500m will probably also want to do the cc race.

[Action]

Some other interesting scheduling issues arise.

The 10k is 2 x 5k laps. The 300 Women are starting 15 mins after the 550 Men. Therefore, the front of the men will catch up to the back of the womens pack before 1k. It could be "interesting".

The other one is that a couple of the 5000m track finals have 50+ entrants, and another handful have 30+. Can you fit that many on the track at once? Should be more interesting moments!

I don't envy the organisers. 9,000 entrants across a dozen age groups and many many events. A real nightmare. Full marks to them!

[BeesKnees]

How are you finding out how many are in a race?

[Colin]

Action, on Sep 17 2009, 04:35 PM, said:

The 10k is 2 x 5k laps. The 300 Women are starting 15 mins after the 550 Men. Therefore, the front of the men will catch up to the back of the womens pack before 1k. It could be "interesting".

18min/km ?

Action, on Sep 17 2009, 04:35 PM, said:

I don't envy the organisers. 9,000 entrants across a dozen age groups and many many events. A real nightmare. Full marks to them!

That's what the $1.98M in entry fees is for isn't it?

Edited by Colin, 17 September 2009 - 06:28 PM.

[Action]

Colin, on Sep 17 2009, 06:28 PM, said:

18min/km ?



That's what the $1.98M in entry fees is for isn't it?

ok, I thought it obvious - womens 1k and mens 6k mark will be about the same...

Gee, I got a discount, only 1.98M Rand ;-)

[Action]

BeesKnees, on Sep 17 2009, 05:19 PM, said:

How are you finding out how many are in a race?

I massaged the Competitor list into Excel. Problem solved.

[southy]

So where did you find the cc schedule at? I can't imagine 850 people on that course at one time. That's insane.
You would think they would start earlier in the day and run say 2 age groups at a time. Or at least run completly seperate mens & womens fields. I read the women do 1 X 2k, then 2X 3k. That will be insanity keeping the fileds running different routes but on the course at the same time.

As to the 5k many of them have 2 times schedules, they will have a faster heat & a slower heat, with both being timed finals. My age group has one 5k race starting at 8:00 and the second one at 8:30. There are 34 listed enries.
But the 1500m for my age group has 25 entries, with 14 of them also registered in the cc race.
With this schedule clash, they won't need the heats of the 1500m.
Under IAAF rules, if you enter the heats and qualify for the next round but don't compete in the next round, you can be disqualified from any further competition. Not sure if the same rules apply to Masters Comp.
I will have to withdraw from the 1500m, as I really love cc. For 220 $, you would think I could do 3 events.
With the men , the clash is between the 800s & CC race. Not quite as bad as the clash between the 1500m & CC.

Edited by southy, 17 September 2009 - 07:51 PM.

[Colin]

Action, on Sep 17 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

ok, I thought it obvious - womens 1k and mens 6k mark will be about the same...

Would have been obvious had I read correctly. For some reason I read that women were starting 15min 'before' men

Probably still hadn't recovered from all that 'reds' I had last night

[Tesso]

southy, on Sep 17 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

Under IAAF rules, if you enter the heats and qualify for the next round but don't compete in the next round, you can be disqualified from any further competition. Not sure if the same rules apply to Masters Comp.
I will have to withdraw from the 1500m, as I really love cc. For 220 $, you would think I could do 3 events.

It might pay to find out the ruling, that way you can at least run the heat of the 1500. Must say I'm starting to wonder if its worth the effort of going all the way out there for it.

[Action]

Colin, on Sep 17 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

Would have been obvious had I read correctly. For some reason I read that women were starting 15min 'before' men

Probably still hadn't recovered from all that 'reds' I had last night

Sounds like a good excuse for an controlled experiment... where is that bottle of red ;-)

[southy]

Action - where did you find the info on the cc races? I must say I have difficulty finding anything on their website. Can you upload the document or tell me where it is ?

[HillsAths1]

Solace, on Sep 16 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Far out man. That's so bloody early for those of us who have to travel in.

Thanks for that.

I would suggest that it would be better for everyone that it is at that time if not even earlier, it is likely that the temperature in October at say 9.00 would be prohibitive to holding a 21km event where there are runners who will be taking 3 plus hours.

[Colin]

HillsAths1, on Sep 18 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

I would suggest that it would be better for everyone that it is at that time if not even earlier, it is likely that the temperature in October at say 9.00 would be prohibitive to holding a 21km event where there are runners who will be taking 3 plus hours.

..but aren't these 'world class' runners? I mean, it is called the World Masters Games

[southy]

I found this info on the website-

5.12 Failure to Participate
Athletes may be excluded from participation in all further events in the competition, including
relays, in cases where:
1. They confirmed for an event, but fail to participate
2. Have qualified in heats, qualifying rounds etc for further participation in an
event but then failed to participate further in that event
3. Failed to compete honestly with bona fide effort.

So yes, if you enter the heats and qualify for the finals , you have to compete in the finals.

Also Action - it seems that the men are doing teh same cousre as teh women in cc - 8k. A 2k lap followed by 2X3k. Probably means all 850 competitors on the course at one time.

No specific schedule though, only a 2:00 start it says. You must pick up your transponder the previous day.

And yes, it is a World Masters Championships but we are still dealing with Masters aged athletes , some of which can be very old and everyone, especially the organising committee has a 'duty of care' to look after them. If someone drops out from heat exhaustion it is sad for everyone, and very bad publicity for the Games organising committee. In Masters Sports, the emphasis is always supposed to be on participation , that's why there are no entry qualification specifications - everyone is welcome to come & compete. It's not just about the elite.

Edited by southy, 18 September 2009 - 09:35 AM.

[Colin]

southy, on Sep 18 2009, 09:01 AM, said:

And yes, it is a World Masters Championships but we are still dealing with Masters aged athletes , some of which can be very old and everyone, especially the organising committee has a 'duty of care' to look after them. If someone drops out from heat exhaustion it is sad for everyone, and very bad publicity for the Games organising committee. In Masters Sports, the emphasis is always supposed to be on participation , that's why there are no entry qualification specifications - everyone is welcome to come & compete. It's not just about the elite.

I didn't mean it so seriously Southy...just a dig at the words "World Champs".

The real reason why there are no entry qual specs are that if there were,and to the same relative standards as other bona fide WC, then the fields would be very, very,very small...and how much money can a commercial organisation (which it is) then make from it.

I don't have any problem with them holding the comp...its great for participation...but why not call it what it is...or would that not market the event so well to participants....obviously not

[southy]

Sorry Colin, didn't mean for that to come out as it did.

It's just annoying that ANSW seems to take it so seriously too and seem to be trying to make it into an elite open mens & womens World Athletics Championships. Masters competition is suppose to be about participation and enjoyment. It seems like ANSW (the committee organising the athletics component in my understanding) has lost the plot.

850 competitors on the course at one time in the hottest part of the day is insanity. Hopefully, that will not happen.

[Solace]

HillsAths1, on Sep 18 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

I would suggest that it would be better for everyone that it is at that time if not even earlier, it is likely that the temperature in October at say 9.00 would be prohibitive to holding a 21km event where there are runners who will be taking 3 plus hours.

Yeah, that's true. I didn't think of that.

[Action]

southy, on Sep 18 2009, 08:37 AM, said:

Action - where did you find the info on the cc races? I must say I have difficulty finding anything on their website. Can you upload the document or tell me where it is ?

Hi Southy
the only info I have on the CC is the entry list. 569 entrants, 382 M and 197 W. The race I was describing with 2 laps of 5k above is the 10k road at Olympic Park. I think you have the course for that?

[southy]

Oh, ok. My mistake. I thought you were describing the cc race. I have info for cc race, but nothing on start times - except 2pm.

Edited by southy, 18 September 2009 - 11:23 AM.

[Sportsman]

southy, on Sep 16 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

I can't believe the changes they have made to their events. I registered for teh CC race (Tuesday), 5000m (thursday) and 1500m (Saturday). Now they have gone & changed the 1500m to Tuesday , at the same time as the cross country race. Of t he 25 women in my age group alone registered for the 1500m, 14 of them are also registyered in teh cc race.
That's over 50% of your female middle distance & distance runners affected by this 'minor' change.

Anyone competing best check the schedule & complain very loudly if you are affected.

The obvious answer is to move the cc to Wednesday.

[Action]

southy, on Sep 18 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

Oh, ok. My mistake. I thought you were describing the cc race. I have info for cc race, but nothing on start times - except 2pm.

No drama! I just got a reply confirming that Aths NSW are organising all the events, that the 5000m (and others) will be timed events with reasonable sized fields (not 55 on the track at once!), and that they are still fine tuning the schedule. The split of the 10k into 2 starts as a na example. So, it is worth rasing concerns directly with the organisers, they seem to be listening and reacting to a point...

BTW, aren't the World Masters Championships and World Masters Games two separate events? Champs for the elites, Games for the rest? Unsure...

[southy]

Thx but I have emailed them twice and got the same standard copied and pasted reply each time about minor clashes being inevitable. A friend of mine complained about them changing the dates of the mens sprint events. He had booked his accomadation & didn't have a place to stay for the latter few days - he got the same copy & pasted reply as I did. I don't think they even read our emails.

I pointed out to them that this clash affects 60% of the entries in the female 1500m runners. My age group alone has 14 of the 25 entries in the 1500m also registered in the cc race.

But they give me the same copy & pasted reply, word for word, about minor clashes are inevitable.

[southy]

A friend of mine was complaining about the mass start of the cc race this morning at our monthly hcap. She is over 70 years old and probably less than 40 kgs. She rang to ask if they were indeed starting everyone at the same time. They said yes they were. I hope they change their mind & at least have a male & a female start. How can someone like her possibly get a fair & clean start to her race, having to try to hold her ground with 35 year old beefy blokes?
She complained about the 2pm start as well, the hottest part of the day. Comon sense would say to have at least 2 starts ( a male & female start) & start it earlier in the day? Its bad enough someone like me, 152 cm & 53 yrs old having to try to hold my own in a start with men but impossible for someone her age (70+). I went to the WM Champs in Brisbane & they managed to have 4 starts which was sensible.