153 replies to this topic

[akaburnsy]

http://www.fizan.ru/...gers%20SS10.pdf

I'd like to get my phalanges into a pair of Speeds or Bikilas.

[chia]

Oh dear, I'm going to have to get a pair of bikilas and a pair of treks when they start stocking them here.

my bank balance

Edited by chia, 01 October 2009 - 01:39 PM.

[Phanta]

Have just been looking at the KSO's, but the Bikila's look very interesting.

Any ideas when they will start to be stocked in Aus? e.g. do Vibram normally ship next years model in time for Xmas?

Hmm... and when the 2010 models come on sale, are we likely to see clearance specials on 2009 versions?

[blair]

Anyone know of a retailer in Brisbane? A couple of these look interesting but I'd like to see them and try them out first

[Phanta]

balri, on Nov 20 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

Anyone know of a retailer in Brisbane? A couple of these look interesting but I'd like to see them and try them out first

Couple of Brisbane stockists listed here - I had my first look at a real pair in Melbourne today (otherwise just researched on the net) and was impressed.

http://www.fivefinge...ockists.php#QLD

[Nutter]

akaburnsy, on Oct 1 2009, 12:28 PM, said:

http://www.fizan.ru/...gers%20SS10.pdf

I'd like to get my phalanges into a pair of Speeds or Bikilas.

With "improved forefoot distribution"... starting to sound like a pair of traditional running shoes already! I don't want them to try to improve anything, I just want them to keep stuff out and protect my soles from stuff!

I'll stick with my KSO's, though I still think I prefer going nudie unless I'm on particularly hostile surfaces.

Nutter.

[Flee]

If you like VFFs and pretty pictures check this out

[slowmo]

Flee, on Jun 23 2010, 10:35 PM, said:

If you like VFFs and pretty pictures check this out

Mmm... those look (and smell) like mine

slowmo

[runningcat]

i like your blog Flee!

I ordered my sprints overseas online, cheaper and delivers reasonably too.

I think the speed is ugly ... its becoming a non-minimalist shoe ... they should leave the laces with Nike or newtons

[Flee]

Thanks runningcat! The blog's still pretty thin but it'll get there.

Totally agree with you on the speed. Maybe I can do a cartoon on that ... hmmm.

Yes I order my VFFs from crossroadsonline.com. Cheapest and fastest shipping to Aus. Have got some Bikilas on pre-order but after a month I'm still waiting ... sigh.

Edited by Flee, 24 June 2010 - 05:52 PM.

[Azz]

http://www.rei.com delivered my new Bikilas in about 8 days. They confirmed they had available stock in real-time via the online customer support, and delivered promptly.

Fairly steep delivery costs but i still saved $80 AUD overall for Bikilas and 2 pairs of Injinji socks over buying local; and most importantly I am up & running and back pushing out countless km's of pain-free, fast-recovery running...

[Flee]

Azz, on Jun 25 2010, 08:40 PM, said:

http://www.rei.com delivered my new Bikilas in about 8 days. They confirmed they had available stock in real-time via the online customer support, and delivered promptly.

Fairly steep delivery costs but i still saved $80 AUD overall for Bikilas and 2 pairs of Injinji socks over buying local; and most importantly I am up & running and back pushing out countless km's of pain-free, fast-recovery running...

Totally jealous, Azz. How do you find the Bikila compared to the previous kso/sprint? If I wasn't so vain I'd probably cancel my order and get some from Rei but I see they've only got the green ones left. After a year of running in green ksos I'm ready for something new. 8 days is pretty impressive and they're obviously a big enough company to receive the first lot of supply. Thanks for the tip!

[craig9elf]

Azz, on Jun 25 2010, 08:40 PM, said:

http://www.rei.com delivered my new Bikilas in about 8 days. They confirmed they had available stock in real-time via the online customer support, and delivered promptly.

Fairly steep delivery costs but i still saved $80 AUD overall for Bikilas and 2 pairs of Injinji socks over buying local; and most importantly I am up & running and back pushing out countless km's of pain-free, fast-recovery running...

Yes please tell how they compare to KSO's or Sprints etc. I still get some underfoot bruising from both KSO's and Sprints. 1/2 marathon max for me in VFF's at this stage. Other than that they are the business!

[runningcat]

browsing throughh, sad they don't offer bikilas on my size!

[doddsy]

I am not to sure about the bikilas they look to much like a shoe, Guess i will have to get some and try them out, they however do look like the may be slightly better off road.

Personally i find my classics are the best especially once the sole gets thinner, though I prefer my sprint for my long runs due to the back flopping around on the classics.

Though I do love the new colours of the biklia

would also love to hear how they compare, the biggest problem i have had with VFF so far is the stitching inside, I got a blister across my whole heel that is still healing after doing comrades(89kms) in my sprints, if the Bikilas have changed the inside stitching this would be a huge plus in my books.

cheers doddsy

[Jimmy4990]

I am not a barefoot runner but I love getting around in Barefeet. I purchased some of the new speed's 3 days ago & I have only taken them off to go to bed. Love the laced look but my but my 11yr old daughter sighed "do you have to ??" when I picked her from school on Friday. None of the folks in The Oaks have seen anything like it.

[BigAl5000]

One day they will make them in a size that wont just fit a toe. Where're the 52+ range.

[RunBare]

Womens KSO Treks.... please send them out soon

[harro]

Thats interesting Runbare...Do chicks have different shape feet, not just smaller???

Harro

[RunBare]

I've tried on some mens sizes, and they do appear to be slightly different in shape. And they didn't make the Treks in small mens sizes anyway, just a very limited range.

[phYx]

The mens FFs are slightly wider so that shape would be noticable to most women.

[Azz]

craig9elf, on Jun 25 2010, 09:46 PM, said:

Yes please tell how they compare to KSO's

The extra tread on the Bikila is noticeable and the fit is different to the KSOs (more snug, not as flexible).

The main challenge with the KSOs was keeping the wear and tear down on the soles of my feet and toes; the issue being blistering just under the small toe on either long or fast runs. The Injiji socks helped, as did taping and padding.

The KSOs have worn right through (1000 kms including Sydney HM) ... and so onto the Bikilas...if all goes well I'll go 42.2 rounds at Melbourne in October.

[Crankyfranky]

These look fascinating...

Does anyone know if they make a narrower fitting specifically, or does the width just vary by model?

I normally wear a B-width size.

I think I will make the trek to Waverley and try on a pair.

[TheLogicDump]

Cranky,

From what I gather the only difference between the men's and women's VFFs are the width. So if you find the men's VFFs are too wide you could try a pair of the women's.

[Crankyfranky]

Got a pair of the lace-up ones from Barefoot Inc - Speed is the model

The lace-up model offers a more snug fit. Did a 5km on the treadmill last nite and it gave the calves a workout they've never had before. I guess it comes from running on the ball of your foot, rather than heel strriking in a conventionally padded shoe.

Overall, I really like them.

[Flee]

Got my Bikila a week ago and took them out (with injinjis) two days later for a 3hr training run. Probably not the wisest thing in the world to do but thank goodness I actually pulled up ok afterwards. Definitely noticed the thicker tread on the front of the toes and ball of the foot but instead of more protection it actually seemed to cause a bit more tenderness underfoot than my KSOs used to cause. I also got a bit of soreness on the bony upper part of my foot where the new strap goes over but I might just have done them up a bit tight.
I'm not sure whether the Bikila are really an improvement for running - I guess time will tell?

[Solace]

Help me please?

I am considering getting myself some vibrams and have been looking at the all the different types and am now confused. I don't think the classic will be appropriate without a strap and the sprint might be okay but I run on a lot of red dirt coated locations. The other more full-footed versions might be okay but I do suffer from really hot and sweaty feet. Is it possible to attach a gaiter to these? The dirty girl or roc bloc kind I mean.

Can anyone offer any advice?

[silvermachine]

Hi Solace,

I am still new to VFFs - started in them around Oct last year. My first pair were sprints because they seemed best suited to running (agree with you about the classic) and my partner started with KSOs because we mostly run on dirt trails and he wanted to Keep Stuff Out. We both swapped models after only a month or two. I went to KSOs because they are slightly thicker on the bottom and I was getting bruised on rocks and pavement as my feet were toughening up. And my partner went with the sprints because he found the full foot of the KSOs too restrictive. I don't know about the gaiter and I am not really interested in the new models as they seem to be messing with something that already works, imo. I think you just have to try and see what is best for you.

burrito

[Nickelass]

Solace, on Aug 9 2010, 10:48 AM, said:

Help me please?

I am considering getting myself some vibrams and have been looking at the all the different types and am now confused. I don't think the classic will be appropriate without a strap and the sprint might be okay but I run on a lot of red dirt coated locations. The other more full-footed versions might be okay but I do suffer from really hot and sweaty feet. Is it possible to attach a gaiter to these? The dirty girl or roc bloc kind I mean.

Can anyone offer any advice?

I use rocbloc gaiters with my KSO's for ultras. They work well on the KSO, keeping out any annoying sand or dust on long runs.

To fit them I have to put them on "back to front" with the velcro tab sewn on the front of the VFF.

IMHO I dont think it would be easy to attach to the sprints. The gaiters dont really extend far enough forward. I'm also not sure that they would keep much dust out of the sprints, as they dont have that tight a fit to the VFF.

Maybe you could get a "custom" pair made?

[Solace]

Thank you for the replies.

What's the difference between the KSO and the Flow?

[Nickelass]

Solace, on Aug 9 2010, 12:40 PM, said:

Thank you for the replies.

What's the difference between the KSO and the Flow?

I've never used the flow.

However, my understanding is the flow is made from wetsuit like material, whereas the KSO's are made from a nylon weave.

The KSO nylon weave is more breathable and cooler than the flows. I find with the KSO's on ultras, they still let in dust and sand which can irritate your foot - hence the need for gaiters.

On the road and in summer (when I'm not barefoot) I almost always run in the sprints as they are cooler, lighter and the most flexible. When running in Sprints off-road, dust and sand gets between the shoe and the foot and rubs. They're OK for shorter runs (up to about 20-30k), but not so good for running ultras.

Edited by Nickelass, 09 August 2010 - 12:52 PM.

[Solace]

Nickelass, on Aug 9 2010, 12:51 PM, said:

I've never used the flow.

However, my understanding is the flow is made from wetsuit like material, whereas the KSO's are made from a nylon weave.

The KSO nylon weave is more breathable and cooler than the flows. I find with the KSO's on ultras, they still let in dust and sand which can irritate your foot - hence the need for gaiters.

On the road and in summer (when I'm not barefoot) I almost always run in the sprints as they are cooler, lighter and the most flexible. When running in Sprints off-road, dust and sand gets between the shoe and the foot and rubs. They're OK for shorter runs (up to about 20-30k), but not so good for running ultras.

I think I will always have to wear socks regardless due to a sweat issue so that might add an extra layer of protection that might keep me comfortable.

Thanks for the info.

[ninjette]

Azz, on Jul 2 2010, 08:56 PM, said:

The extra tread on the Bikila is noticeable and the fit is different to the KSOs (more snug, not as flexible).

The main challenge with the KSOs was keeping the wear and tear down on the soles of my feet and toes; the issue being blistering just under the small toe on either long or fast runs. The Injiji socks helped, as did taping and padding.

The KSOs have worn right through (1000 kms including Sydney HM) ... and so onto the Bikilas...if all goes well I'll go 42.2 rounds at Melbourne in October.

1000km is good going! I'd be happy with that. I've just worn holes in the soles of my KSOs (left foot, three small holes down the outside of the foot, starting under the little toe) in only 300km of running (and no races in them yet!) I spoke to Barefoot Inc about this who said Vibram only guarantee the soles for 3 months. (I've probably only run in them for 2 months, but have actually had them for 5, so no joy there). They said it's probably my running style. Well, yes, it is, (I'm an underpronating forefoot-runner), but I still think a pair of VFFs should last more than 300km no matter how / where / when you run! Just slightly thicker soles down the outside of the foot would do it: I mean, they have quite a thick heel, when in the normal course of events, your heel has minimal contact with the ground.

Anyway, I've ordered another pair and am planning three races in them over the next two months. I haven't seen the Bikila in the flesh yet, but am thinking from pictures that they look like they're approaching 'shoe' status: all those separate pieces in the sole! Surely a single piece of material for the sole would be the ideal? Although they do seem to have additional wear-resistance down the side of the foot where I need it, so might be good for me in that regard.

Will be interested to see the reviews of Bikila wearers.

Ninjette.

[Flee]

ninjette, on Aug 9 2010, 02:56 PM, said:

Will be interested to see the reviews of Bikila wearers.

Ninjette.

Hey Solace and Ninjette
Just an update on the Bikila - just a week or so on and they're heaps more comfortable to run in and now I prefer them to my KSOs. Even though they work wonders on the road I can definitely imagine them being great for the trail as the slightly thicker tread does give a lot more protection for small stones and those little rock-hard pine-cone things that drop from trees. They're as light, thin and flexible as the KSOs, even with all the 'extra' structure. However Solace if you are looking for a model specifically for trail running the new KSO trek sport for women has just been released in the US and I am going to nab a pair as soon as they're available for international shipping. I did the six foot track in my KSO's at the beginning of the year and while I survived, I could have definitely done with more forefoot protection over the rockier parts of the trail.

[TheLogicDump]

Hi Ninjette,

I am a new runner & just completed my first City2Surf (88min). When I decided to get back into running after a long (6+ years) break, I decided to do it in Vibrams as I knew I would be slowly building up my distances anyway so thought it was the best time to jump into it. I picked up a set of the Bikila's & Trek's in the US about a month ago & they certainly have a different feel when compared to my classics.

I grabbed the Bikila's because I knew I had a few longer road runs coming up (C2S just compleated & the Blackmores 1/2 in september) and thought it would assist in me extending my distances. I have to say I really am loving them for road running. I was able to complete the C2S with no issues except a little bit of soreness in the balls of my feet (But I attribute that to my weight). So from my uneducated & new position I really love my Bikila's for the road running I need to do.

I can see my self swapping back to a set of shoes like the Sprints/KSO/Classics for training runs when I am fitter, more experienced & running longer distances but for now I am really happy with the Bikilas for all my road running efforts.

[phYx]

lardbucket, on Aug 12 2010, 10:57 AM, said:

I can see my self swapping back to a set of shoes like the Sprints/KSO/Classics for training runs when I am fitter, more experienced & running longer distances but for now I am really happy with the Bikilas for all my road running efforts.

Hi LB, is this because the other FFs have less padding or sole than the Bikilas? And how do you compare the grip of the Bikilas to your other shoes?

[doddsy]

ninjette, on Aug 9 2010, 02:56 PM, said:

1000km is good going! I'd be happy with that. I've just worn holes in the soles of my KSOs (left foot, three small holes down the outside of the foot, starting under the little toe) in only 300km of running (and no races in them yet!) I spoke to Barefoot Inc about this who said Vibram only guarantee the soles for 3 months. (I've probably only run in them for 2 months, but have actually had them for 5, so no joy there). They said it's probably my running style. Well, yes, it is, (I'm an underpronating forefoot-runner), but I still think a pair of VFFs should last more than 300km no matter how / where / when you run! Just slightly thicker soles down the outside of the foot would do it: I mean, they have quite a thick heel, when in the normal course of events, your heel has minimal contact with the ground.

Anyway, I've ordered another pair and am planning three races in them over the next two months. I haven't seen the Bikila in the flesh yet, but am thinking from pictures that they look like they're approaching 'shoe' status: all those separate pieces in the sole! Surely a single piece of material for the sole would be the ideal? Although they do seem to have additional wear-resistance down the side of the foot where I need it, so might be good for me in that regard.


Ninjette.

Ninjette,

I wore into my 1st pair pretty quickly and am not far off putting holes in them now, though i have done nearly600kms in them however i did notice around 300kms i changed my stride slightly and the wear slowed down incredibly, my sprints (which I borough around 300km in the classics)are taking a lot longer to get thru as well about 350kms and very little wear. Not saying you should change your stride but it does appear to have somethign to do with different landings, also could have been a low quality rubber batched slipped out somewhere along the line. I am doing most of my miles barefooted now and that has deffinitley put a perspective on wearng of the foot so I have to pay more attention to my landing at the back stages of longer runs make sure i don't wear holes in my feet and hence this is possibly helping the VFF last longer as well

I also agree with the bikilia being to shoe like, I actually find vibrams have been at their best once they get a bit thinner and softer, I don't think for now i'll be enticed away from either the classic or sprint, however I am running willy 2 billy next week which will be my first full trail run in VFF so i am sure the bikilas will be looking a lot more enitcing after that.

Cheers

[ninjette]

Thanks Flee and lardbucket* for the reviews.

Definitely sounds like it will be worth investing in a pair of Bikilas when I can. Did you find the sizing the same as for your other VFFs or larger / smaller? I am not at this stage a trail runner, so only use them for roads, paths, and sand, but who knows what the future holds?

Just picked up my new pair of KSOs this morning; the three small holes I mentioned in my old ones turned into one large hole in the space of a single run, so it would seem that once that sole is breached, it really doesn't last long. I said to my son that if I kept running in them I really would be running barefoot soon, and he suggested that that may all be part of Vibram's cunning plan....

Ninjette.

* Will await your name change a couple of months from now after all that running pays off... See you at the Blackmores half!

[ninjette]

doddsy, on Aug 12 2010, 12:20 PM, said:

I wore into my 1st pair pretty quickly and am not far off putting holes in them now, though i have done nearly600kms in them however i did notice around 300kms i changed my stride slightly and the wear slowed down incredibly, my sprints (which I borough around 300km in the classics)are taking a lot longer to get thru as well about 350kms and very little wear. Not saying you should change your stride but it does appear to have somethign to do with different landings, also could have been a low quality rubber batched slipped out somewhere along the line. I am doing most of my miles barefooted now and that has deffinitley put a perspective on wearng of the foot so I have to pay more attention to my landing at the back stages of longer runs make sure i don't wear holes in my feet and hence this is possibly helping the VFF last longer as well

I also agree with the bikilia being to shoe like, I actually find vibrams have been at their best once they get a bit thinner and softer, I don't think for now i'll be enticed away from either the classic or sprint, however I am running willy 2 billy next week which will be my first full trail run in VFF so i am sure the bikilas will be looking a lot more enitcing after that.

Thanks for the reply doddsy...I think I must have been typing mine when yours posted.

Yes, I know you're right about my stride. Clearly something's not quite right with it, since I am getting significant wear down the outside of my VFFs (and my ordinary running shoes), and I need to fix it. There's nothing like running barefoot (or nearly so) for making the oddities of your gait glaringly apparent! The question is what exactly to do about it. (Although I still think--as a separate issue--that the VFFs should have been able to absorb that kind of wear without falling apart quite so quickly). I really do love the flexibility of the KSOs but would be willing to try a pair of the Bikilas just for comparison.

Good luck with the trail run next week. Will be interested to hear your review of the softer/ more flexible VFFs after that!

Ninjette.

[Nickelass]

My last pair of sprints lasted almost 3000K before they gave up the ghost. Once you correct your gait and eliminate friction, they last (almost) forever.

[doddsy]

ninjette, on Aug 12 2010, 12:41 PM, said:

Thanks for the reply doddsy...I think I must have been typing mine when yours posted.

Yes, I know you're right about my stride. Clearly something's not quite right with it, since I am getting significant wear down the outside of my VFFs (and my ordinary running shoes), and I need to fix it. There's nothing like running barefoot (or nearly so) for making the oddities of your gait glaringly apparent! The question is what exactly to do about it. (Although I still think--as a separate issue--that the VFFs should have been able to absorb that kind of wear without falling apart quite so quickly). I really do love the flexibility of the KSOs but would be willing to try a pair of the Bikilas just for comparison.

Good luck with the trail run next week. Will be interested to hear your review of the softer/ more flexible VFFs after that!

Ninjette.

Well I ran Willy 2 Billy in the sprints and was pretty happy with them,trod on a rock or two that i felt but it just made me more aware of where i was putting my feet and ensured i was watching where i was going, with the lovely scenery was hard at times. They were a bit slippery in the mud but I think any shoe would of been and found it probably helped wearing the sprints as i knew my foot was slipping and my foot corrected my landing for me before i had time to slip out.

Found I was skipping down the hills nearly at some speed and had a thourghouly enjoyable run. Ran the day after as you know at the Pub 2 Pub barefooted. So for me going forward it will be a combinstion sprints and mainly barefoot for rds and sprints off road. I am still of the opinion to much grip on the bottom of five fingers is really taking away from the minimilast thing and putting them back more as a shoe but that is just my personal view.

[kbryant]

Solace, on Aug 9 2010, 08:48 AM, said:

Help me please?

I am considering getting myself some vibrams and have been looking at the all the different types and am now confused. I don't think the classic will be appropriate without a strap and the sprint might be okay but I run on a lot of red dirt coated locations. The other more full-footed versions might be okay but I do suffer from really hot and sweaty feet. Is it possible to attach a gaiter to these? The dirty girl or roc bloc kind I mean.

Can anyone offer any advice?

for me personally, the lack of a strap is a non-issue. I wear my classics with injinjis and they don't come off; so you don't have to worry about that.
As you run on dirt tracks, maybe the trek would be more appropriate for keeping out dirt. Just sprinkle odor-eaters overnite powder into it every now and then to keep it smelling fresh.

[EarlyBird]

Ordered a pair of Trek Sports yesterday - really looking forward to trying them out!

[phYx]

EarlyBird let us know what you think of them! I am tossing up between the Bikilas and the Trek Sports for my next pair.

[EarlyBird]

phYx, on Aug 25 2010, 11:39 AM, said:

EarlyBird let us know what you think of them! I am tossing up between the Bikilas and the Trek Sports for my next pair.

Will do! I've been coveting the Treks for sooo long, but didn't want leather. Hopefully these'll be worth the wait!

[EarlyBird]

phYx, I found this review where a comparison is made between the Trek Sport and the Bikilas. I'll definitely be sticking with the Sprints for on-road stuff, but the Trek Sport should be great for the rocky trails around here.

[phYx]

Thanks for that. Just made my decision harder

[EarlyBird]

Glad I could help!

[TechGirl]

A fairly large percentage of the population have their second toe, longer or further forward than their first toe, looking at the images of this product suggests they only cater for the first toe folk. Does anyone with the longer second toe have any experience using this product? I tried on a pair belonging to a friend of close foot size and my 2nd toe wasn't very happy with the design.

Cheers

TechGirl

[Freesoul]

TechGirl, on Aug 26 2010, 08:42 PM, said:

A fairly large percentage of the population have their second toe, longer or further forward than their first toe, looking at the images of this product suggests they only cater for the first toe folk. Does anyone with the longer second toe have any experience using this product? I tried on a pair belonging to a friend of close foot size and my 2nd toe wasn't very happy with the design.

Cheers

TechGirl

Yep, it's called Morton's Toe. I bought my KSO's in a size too small, as I didn't allow for my Morton's toe. When I wore the KSO's, the problem didn't seem to be in the length of toes per se, but I got pain and abrasion at the base of my second toe (metatarsal pad). When barefoot, or in aquasocks, I don't have this problem.
Check out this discussion: Morton's Toe discussion at Minimalist Runner