20 replies to this topic

[wildcoyte]

Hi all i was wondering about speed training for a half marathon or should i just increse my mileage and distance?? i have a coach but he's getting everyone ready for the track season now and i still want to do the track season but only in the steeple and then get ready for 1-2 halfs for the next road and cross season i'm coinfused and wondering what i should do for training but by the time i do my next half i'll be 17 and i need help. thanks before hand to any one who replies.

WC (Brandon Nairn)

[EnduranceMachine]

wildcoyte, on Oct 1 2009, 01:29 PM, said:

Hi all i was wondering about speed training for a half marathon or should i just increse my mileage and distance?? i have a coach but he's getting everyone ready for the track season now and i still want to do the track season but only in the steeple and then get ready for 1-2 halfs for the next road and cross season i'm coinfused and wondering what i should do for training but by the time i do my next half i'll be 17 and i need help. thanks before hand to any one who replies.

WC (Brandon Nairn)

How Many Months Between End Of Track And Your Peak Half And Is It More Imporatant Then Xc Season?

[wildcoyte]

don't actaully no yet i think it ends in march and i might be doing a half in may

WC

[EnduranceMachine]

wildcoyte, on Oct 1 2009, 02:02 PM, said:

don't actaully no yet i think it ends in march and i might be doing a half in may

WC

Is The Half A Big Race Goal Or Just Prep For XC Season

[wildcoyte]

well i wanna beat my current pb of 101:19 so i wanna get around 85-90mins

WC

[EnduranceMachine]

wildcoyte, on Oct 1 2009, 02:17 PM, said:

well i wanna beat my current pb of 101:19 so i wanna get around 85-90mins

WC

For Half Marathons YoU Main Form Of Speed Work Would Be More Along The Lines Of

40 min T pace
(use your VDOT and table
7.1 or 7.2 to figure your
adjusted tempo pace)


45 min steady T pace
(use your VDOT and table
7.1 or 7.2 to figure your
adjusted tempo pace) or
20 min or 4 miles T pace,
+ 4 min E pace +
15 min or 3 miles T pace,
+ 3 min E pace +
10 min or 2 miles T pace,
+ 2 min at E pace +
5 min or 1 mile T pace
20 min or 4 miles means
to do whatever distance
T pace will take 20 min,
which is about 4 miles for
better runners.


Sets of 4 to 5 min hard
(or 1,200m or 1 mile) I
pace with 3- to 4-min
recovery jogs
The sum of the workout
should be the
lesser of 10K and 8%
of the week’s total
mileage.


4  (1,000m to 1 mile T
pace with 1 min rests) +
2  (1,000m at I pace
with 3-min jogs) +
4  (200m at R pace
with 200m jogs)

3  (2 miles T pace with
2-min rests)

Using Daniels Vo2 Max Tables Based On Race Times

Edited by Finny3, 01 October 2009 - 02:34 PM.

[justanothercoach]

Well done finny, looks like your finally listening
Daniels is a legend. Follow him and you won't get sick as often or over trained.
But I don't think 16-17 yr olds should be doing half marathons. Plenty of time when older. Once you give up on speed you are done.

Edited by justanothercoach, 01 October 2009 - 03:55 PM.

[EnduranceMachine]

justanothercoach, on Oct 1 2009, 03:54 PM, said:

Well done finny, looks like your finally listening
Daniels is a legend. Follow him and you won't get sick as often or over trained.
But I don't think 16-17 yr olds should be doing half marathons. Plenty of time when older. Once you give up on speed you are done.

Yeah I Am Not A Big Fan Of Racing 1/2's At The Moment.

Race 5ks 1/2's Take To Much Recovery

Edited by Finny3, 03 October 2009 - 11:05 AM.

[RunningKidCJ]

before the half i did. my speed training looked like

- 4-5 x 1500m @ 10km pace
- 30-40min tempo runs
- 13km runs at race pace.

But in saying that, i totally stuffed my half and did 98mins when i was aiming more at 90

[southy]

I would much prefer to see someone your age focusing on the 5k race. As JustAnotherCoach said, plenty of time for 1/2M later. Focus on your 5 k now.
Do plenty of 400m, 800m & 1km repeats.
You will be a better 1/2M later on if you focus on the shorter races now.
Of course I am just another coach though (who happens to coach quite a few young runners).

[EnduranceMachine]

southy, on Oct 2 2009, 09:37 AM, said:

I would much prefer to see someone your age focusing on the 5k race. As JustAnotherCoach said, plenty of time for 1/2M later. Focus on your 5 k now.
Do plenty of 400m, 800m & 1km repeats.
You will be a better 1/2M later on if you focus on the shorter races now.
Of course I am just another coach though (who happens to coach quite a few young runners).

Yeah Focus On Shorter Races Wild I Will Do Some Longer Racer During My Base Like 12-15k At Mara Pace Based On Daniels Tables With The Last 2-3k At Threshold Pace Just For Somthing Different.

[wildcoyte]

my only q was to see weather i should do speed training or just increse my mileage thats all but tahnk you for your replies

[EnduranceMachine]

wildcoyte, on Oct 2 2009, 11:08 AM, said:

my only q was to see weather i should do speed training or just increse my mileage thats all but tahnk you for your replies

For Halfs Work On Tempo Runs Until The Last 2-3 Weeks Start To Taper Off A Little And Then Do Faster Shapen Work Around 3-5k Paces

[Ewen]

Why do you want to race half marathons? A 16-17 year-old shouldn't be racing half marathons. Ask your coach! If you don't have the speed for 800m, then race 1500m, steeple, 5000m and cross country. Racing a half marathon now isn't going to make you into a fast half marathoner.

Don't worry about having a 101:19 PB. If you do your best at the shorter distances for the next 5 years you'll take 25 minutes (or more) off that when you eventually race another half.

[bruncle]

Lot of fear talk, but I don't see any issue with a 16 yo running a HM as long as they've trained for it properly. It's not that far if you build up to it gradually. Perhaps it might have more severe repercussions compared to an older runner if he were to do one tomorrow of a base of 0km, but that's not what we're talking about. No need to baby anyone if that's what they want to do. I do agree though that it would be a better long term training strategy to still focus on shorter distances and gradually increase the training volume as he develops as a runner. The occasional HM in the off season isn't going to matter though and the base training he'll develop will really help for track.

Finny's training advice was good. For a HM you want to focus on two things: building muscle strength so you can last the distance; and improving your lactate threshold, so you can hold a fast pace for the whole race. The first one is best accomplished by doing long runs of at least 18k (but I'd argue 25k is optimum) and the second can be achieved by longish tempo style runs like Finny described.

'Speed training' in the form of short intervals is unnecessary, but if you're talking about really short alactic 150ish m sprints (aka striders/wind sprints) to maintain neuromuscular efficiency, then I'd very much encourage you to work them into your normal runs.

[Emrun]

It's not fear talk, it's to do with the fact that a 16-17 year old male is right in the middle of his biggest growth spurt.

I would be wary of coaching anyone of WC's age to run a half marathon, his body is expending a heap of energy to grow and more importantly bones are growing more rapidly than muscles and tendons/ligaments (in fact skeletal development is about a year ahead of soft tissue development). The type of mileage required to run a good half marathon can put too much pressure on a growing body and he will run the risk of injury, osgood schlatters is one that springs to mind and not uncommon amongst teenagers but there would be a heightened risk of stress fracture as well.

While girls have generally finished growing by 18, a male will continue until about 22, therefore it is prudent to train carefully up to this age and stick to the shorter distances. This will allow a young athlete to develop a base and good training habits hopefully uninterrupted by serious injury, once into the 20s mileage and intensity can be increased and half and full marathons can be considered.

This is all pretty general but I don't want to bore everyone with an indepth post about physical development. The simple message is to protect a growing body, minimise the risk of serious injury and take the time to build the strength that is required for a long and fulfilling running life.

I would advise to concentrate on distances up to 5000/5km, maybe a few of up to 15km for fun and consider the next half once you are in your early 20s.

[Long Arms]

Wildcoyote,

Seems several coaches in here are trying to talk you out of the half marathon. Your coach is on the right path having the youngsters in the squad focus on track racing over the summer months. It is best you continue to delelop your speed whilst young.

There is no harm in a runner your age running a half marathon. However, it is not the best idea to make the half marathon your prime event when you know you can still improve heaps over 400m, 800m, 1500m and 3000m.

If you really want you jump in a half marathon, do it, but don't take it too seriously. By asking for specific half marathon sessions, you are taking it too seriously. If you are running an average of at least 40km per week and completing long runs of 16km or more, you will breeze through the half. If you want to be more competitive, then long runs of 21km or longer will be neccessary. I know you have plenty of racing experience in 10km races, so a solid half marathon won't be too tough for you. I would go out at a relaxed pace and aim to work hard only in the final 5km of the half. It would thus be just like a hardish long run for you.

You should be getting pumped up about the track season. It doesn't matter if you are not a track star for your age. If you can chip away at your track pbs, your 2010 road and cross country season will be excellent.

Recent World half marathon championships have been won in 59min by guys your age and a bit older from Africa, but they have been logging up the mileage big time since they were knee high to a grasshopper. They have also, almost certainly, extracted every ounce of speed out of their early developing bodies.

So I hope to see you at Sydney tracks over the summer working on those pbs.

[Long Arms]

I just checked the 2009 World Half marathon rankings for men up to this point (Oct 5). Here is the top 360 or so times, plus the dates of birth of each runner.
IAAF Half marathon rankings
I only found 3 juniors (ie under twenty) runners in this list of 360 of the best half marathoners in the world. It looks like you have plenty of time yet Wild Coyote!

[wildcoyte]

Thanks Sean i have found posting this topic has saprked a heated debate about running a half at my age but i'll still do the track season but cncentrate on the steeple and the 5000 and10000 distances i'll ba aming to bring my 5000 track pb down to around 17:50 to 17:30 heres hoping i cand do it at the NSW 5000 champs and then my 1st 10000 track race will be the NSW champs hoping that they have a A,B,C,D races for the 25 lap event!!!

WC

[Long Arms]

great goals WC, but speak to your coach about your racing in plenty of 800m, 1500m and 3000 as well. The NSW 3000m champs, where they have up to divsions depending on everyone's pbs, could be a good first up focus event. You amy want to race an 800m and 1500m in the weeks leading up to it

[HillsAths1]

WC, congratulations on having the courage to stand up for what you believe is right.

On the other hand as a coach of many teens and older, I would ask you to consider why so many coaches including Sean, your own coach and others are imploring you to reconsider your position?(I believe the answers are already in the posts above)

Good luck with your goals and I hope you achieve them.