20 replies to this topic

[FlyingFossil]

For reasons I won't go into I have not had to buy running shoes for a number of years But I was given a discount voucher for a new shop just opened in Perth so I set off to buy!

The conversation with the sales assistant (in an immaculate track suit) went like this:

SA: Looking for anything in particular?
Me: Yes I know exactly what I want, Asics 2140
SA: No sorry we don't have Asics
Me: You don't stock them?
SA: No we only have the more technical running shoes. And Asics are not up to that standard.
Me: So what brands do you have?
SA: (waving at the shoe display) Mizuno and Brooks, mostly. (I did see some Adidas's there too)
Me: Ok thanks, well I'd prefer to stick with the ones I've run all my marathons & ultras in thanks
SA: Ok, you could try Jim Kidds or The Athlete's Foot
Me: Yeah thanks

The running shoe scene has obviously changed since the last time I was in the market

[halifax]

SA: No we only have the more technical running shoes. And Asics are not up to that standard.

"Asics are not up that standard"!!!???? WTF???? Who is this salesperson??

[avatar_will]

That's tragically ignorant on the part of the sales assistant....even the Australian Government website has
a link to ASICs website as "includes a technical section that covers the design features of running shoes".

http://www.ausport.gov.au/information/find.../topic/clothing

I'll be buying my 4th pair of ASICs Gel Nimbus online from the U.S., just to keep away from the salespeople! :-)

[Didge]

Sounds like Mr Immaculate Tracksuit, and even those who own the shop need to go back to running shoe school........

[FlyingFossil]

Hi again - a followup as I've just found Sports Fever's web site -

www.sportsfever.com.au/products.htm

Quote

Sports Fever stocks a full selection of the world’s leading brands in sporting, leisure and comfort footwear. Sports Fever only partners with technical footwear companies that are completely dedicated to ensuring product technology, quality, comfort and value. Our staff receive regular product training to ensure they are up to date with the latest product innovations.

and they have the logos of all the leading brands, including Asics. There must be some reason why the Perth store won't stock them.

Anyway their loss was Jim Kidd's gain

[Colin]

FlyingFossil, on Nov 1 2009, 12:01 AM, said:

SA: No we only have the more technical running shoes. And Asics are not up to that standard.

Not sure whether ASICS is 'technical' at all...but it isn't more technical than other brands...it has done better marketing...yes.

I have had a similar experience from what many say is the leading shoe store in Sydney and the sales assistant is a fairly good, experienced and well known runner.

By phone (he identified himself...I won't here, the last time I did some of his friends/supporters got upset
)
Me: What price is your Pegasus?
SA: We don't stock Nike.
Me: Why not?
SA: They don't make good running shoes.

They are an ASICS stockist btw. The Pegasus that year was voted number one shoe by eight out of ten RW editors independently around the world and the Pegasus has remained largely unchanged for many years.
Considering that the store/experienced runner cannot have failed to know that, they clearly only push what puts $$ in the till.
But the reasons they give are stupid and absolutely guarranteed to piss an experienced customer off for life.

[miler]

FlyingFossil, on Nov 1 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Hi again - a followup as I've just found Sports Fever's web site -

www.sportsfever.com.au/products.htm
and they have the logos of all the leading brands, including Asics. There must be some reason why the Perth store won't stock them.

Anyway their loss was Jim Kidd's gain

Flying Fossil,

I think you'll find that it's not that Sports Fever won't stock Asics, it's that Asics won't give them an account and therefore the opportunity to stock them. The questions of "why" probably lie with Asics not Sports Fever. Considering their market share I'm sure Sports Fever would love to stock Asics.

[PodRunner]

Colin, on Oct 31 2009, 05:45 PM, said:

Not sure whether ASICS is 'technical' at all...but it isn't more technical than other brands...it has done better marketing...yes.

I have had a similar experience from what many say is the leading shoe store in Sydney and the sales assistant is a fairly good, experienced and well known runner.

By phone (he identified himself...I won't here, the last time I did some of his friends/supporters got upset
)
Me: What price is your Pegasus?
SA: We don't stock Nike.
Me: Why not?
SA: They don't make good running shoes.

They are an ASICS stockist btw. The Pegasus that year was voted number one shoe by eight out of ten RW editors independently around the world and the Pegasus has remained largely unchanged for many years.
Considering that the store/experienced runner cannot have failed to know that, they clearly only push what puts $$ in the till.
But the reasons they give are stupid and absolutely guarranteed to piss an experienced customer off for life.

I know which store. It's the owner, not the manager. He is very old school and seems to have developed a loathing of Nike from a previous experience when I asked him why not. I reckon they make some of the best neutral and competition shoes going at present. The Zoom Elite is one of the most popular shoes among my group of running mates. Hope they don't stuff it by changing to Lunar Elite.

[wharfie]

Hmm,
When I bought my first ever pair of high end runners, I went to a SportsFever store in Perth. I was sent home with a set of Mizunos, which to be honest have never been that comfortable. But thats another story, and certainly not a critisism of sportsfever.

Anyhow, the salesman there, volunteered the reason for not stocking Asics as being that they only have half the lifespan of the other shoes they stocked...

[BayRunBoy]

I worked in a shoe store in the city for a few months, recently. I can tell you from experience that you can spot a coolrunner coming from 3 blocks away with his penny purse tightly fastened around his groin region. You are a very difficult bunch to sell to because:
1. For the most part, you are cheap
2. All you want to do is tell me about the time you ran in the 6ft track
3. I can't get a word in about the product because you are telling me how you ran 40km in 8hours on the weekend.

Cut the salesman some slack. He knows more about shoes than you and you would be well advised to take his/her advice.

[loubee]

wharfie, on Nov 4 2009, 05:01 PM, said:

Hmm,
When I bought my first ever pair of high end runners, I went to a SportsFever store in Perth. I was sent home with a set of Mizunos, which to be honest have never been that comfortable. But thats another story, and certainly not a critisism of sportsfever.

Anyhow, the salesman there, volunteered the reason for not stocking Asics as being that they only have half the lifespan of the other shoes they stocked...

Wharfie is correct. I also asked why they didn't stock them and was told that and they also felt the shoe wasn't 'updated' but you were paying more and more each year. I'm guessing the owner has thing about them or he gets a good deal on other brands by not stocking them.

Wharfie, they also give you a month to return the shoe if you are unhappy with them.

Runners World have very good selection of running shoes, even Nike Pegasus, and they are often cheaper than most of the larger stores (with the exception of Jim Kidd sales on last seasons models).

[Bellthorpe]

BayRunBoy, on Nov 4 2009, 07:32 PM, said:

Cut the salesman some slack. He knows more about shoes than you and you would be well advised to take his/her [sic.] advice.

At the small number of professionally staffed specialist stores, that's true.

At the bulk of 'chain' shoe stores, it's definitely not the case.

The entire thrust of this thread is a fine example of when it's nonsense.

[Colin]

BayRunBoy, on Nov 4 2009, 08:32 PM, said:

I worked in a shoe store in the city for a few months, recently....
...
2. All you want to do is tell me about the time you ran in the 6ft track

mmmm 6FT envy... be careful

btw what Rebel store was that?

[wharfie]

loubee, on Nov 4 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

Wharfie is correct. I also asked why they didn't stock them and was told that and they also felt the shoe wasn't 'updated' but you were paying more and more each year. I'm guessing the owner has thing about them or he gets a good deal on other brands by not stocking them.

Wharfie, they also give you a month to return the shoe if you are unhappy with them.

Runners World have very good selection of running shoes, even Nike Pegasus, and they are often cheaper than most of the larger stores (with the exception of Jim Kidd sales on last seasons models).

Thanks Loubee,
At the time I wasn't, and probably still not aware of how exactly a shoe should fit, and feel. I liked the mizunos because they felt light when wearing them. They have never felt comfortable, but I have a big track record of wearing shoes, boots, etc probably a size/half too big. So I wasn't sure exactly how they should feel on my feet, being a shoe for pronators, ie wave nirvana 6's. Now I have got a big off the rack orthotics, with some professional, and self added, padding bunged on.
I guess the bottom line is I still have to tape up the arches of my feet to stop blisters, but no sign of the itb and cuboid probs I had in the past. Ran the c2s half, way under what I expected, with only one blister, which I think was from running down hills.
Not sure where the money is best spent now, ie on getting the $600 custom hard orthotics, and/or buying new shoes, and whether there is any point getting pronation correcting shoes, if I will be putting inserts in anyway.
Oh and as far as cutting the salesman some slack, I am all for that. I work at a vet clinic and while I love interacting with clients, sometimes I think that we CR's might be the vet nurses equivalent to breeders... " Don't tell me about dogs, I have bred dogs for thirty years..."

Oh and sorry for the previous post, that should have read "criticism".

Edited by wharfie, 05 November 2009 - 12:23 AM.

[yeti]

BayRunBoy, on Nov 3 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

I worked in a shoe store in the city for a few months, recently. I can tell you from experience that you can spot a coolrunner coming from 3 blocks away with his penny purse tightly fastened around his groin region. You are a very difficult bunch to sell to because:
1. For the most part, you are cheap

Yes of course we are - we actually delight in driving poor sports shop owners into insolvency by not buying some overhyped, overpriced piece of "motion control technology" (a.k.a. Asics Kayano) when all we need is some comfortable, reasonably lightweight neutral shoe for ~60% of the price.

BayRunBoy, on Nov 3 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

2. All you want to do is tell me about the time you ran in the 6ft track

Good news for you on that front - some of us have given up telling sales assistants about 6ft times. Too much effort to explain to them what 6ft actually is.

BayRunBoy, on Nov 3 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

Cut the salesman some slack. He knows more about shoes than you and you would be well advised to take his/her advice.

Even if the sales assistant knows more about shoes than the average CR, which, as someone in this thread remarked before, is entirely possible in specialist running stores but highly unlikely in most sports shop chains, he still doesn't necessarily know about my needs w.r.t. running shoes (gait, feet ...). Plus, there is always the issue of bias.

I am actually writing from experience here: When I was living in Dublin I had a sales guy in a "specialist" running shop trying to sell to me (70kg, neutral gait, no foot problems) a pair of Kayanos _despite_ me specifically asking for a _neutral_ shoe. And no, it wasn't the work experience kid, it was the boss himself.

Yeti

[swaggerer]

Why would you need shoes to run six foot? I do toe races over six foot. I am from Queensland.

[Duffman]

yeti, on Nov 4 2009, 07:48 PM, said:

I had a sales guy in a "specialist" running shop trying to sell to me (70kg, neutral gait, no foot problems) a pair of Kayanos _despite_ me specifically asking for a _neutral_ shoe.

Looking at all the gel they have stuffed into the lateral heel and relatively mild support through the midfoot I would classify the Kayano as more of a neutral shoe than a stability shoe. But it depends on your definition of "neutral". If you are going by the Asics marketing definition then yes it is a neutral shoe.

[yeti]

Duffman, on Nov 5 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Looking at all the gel they have stuffed into the lateral heel and relatively mild support through the midfoot I would classify the Kayano as more of a neutral shoe than a stability shoe. But it depends on your definition of "neutral". If you are going by the Asics marketing definition then yes it is a neutral shoe.

Seems that not only running schoes must have changed, but also the definition of what constitutes a "stability" shoe. Last time I looked at a Kayano I found it quite stiff w.r.t. midfoot torsion.
But maybe that's just Asics - I've noticed that Mizuno lists the Elixir, which I would have considered neutral and which is IMHO much less stiff than the Kayano, as "support", not as "neutral".

Yeti

[Duffman]

yeti, on Nov 5 2009, 06:21 PM, said:

Last time I looked at a Kayano I found it quite stiff w.r.t. midfoot torsion.
Yeti

Asics have a shank ("Asics trustic system") in all their IGS shoes which resists midfoot torsion and provides a stable platform for propulsion. The Asics Nimbus is similarly stiff through the midfoot.

I see neutral as being a static concept, whilst torsion as a dynamic concept.

I like the system Intraining use which further differentiates neutral shoes into "firm" and "flexible". But as you say, this all means nothing without then applying it to the customers history and biomechanical tendencies.

[swaggerer]

I just read a R4YL shoe guide. Then The Asics guide. Then all the barefoot nonsense. And just to add to the confusion.

http://www.therunnin...ning_shoes.html

The industry needs to standardise all its terms and recommendations (as best as possible).

[Rafferty]

FlyingFossil, on Nov 1 2009, 12:01 AM, said:

The running shoe scene has obviously changed since the last time I was in the market

And some sales assistants are seemingly getting smarter by the minute.

Had five minutes to kill the other day so had a browse in an Athletes Foot.

AF: can I help you?
Me: just browsing running shoes [picks up shoe and inspects]
AF: I don't think those one's would be suitable
Me: why is that?
AF: those one's are for runners who roll in
Me: eh?
AF: well you roll out
Me: how do you know that?
AF: [looks down at my feet] you look like you roll out
Me: [WTF? ] Have a great day

Edited by Rafferty, 08 November 2009 - 09:18 PM.