65 replies to this topic

[Mister G]

Been talked about over a few beers on and off for a while, now it's being put out there....

12 and 6 hour Fatass- Kedumba Pass- 7pm December 26, 2009

The route can be found here. A favourite sekrit training venue for 6FT, TNF100, etc. A 15.5K round trip with 650m descent and ascent, from the top carpark (above the gate) to the Jamison Creek causeway and return.

People have done 2 and 3 reps at a time when training for various ultras, even 4 at one time.... the question is, how many could you do in 12 hours? Six? Seven?

Start will be at 7pm in order to avoid the worst of the summer heat. Self supporting- park your own car at the top and fill it with goodies to access on each rep.

The ideal last long run for Bogong, 15 days later. Also a good way to burn off guilty Christmas calories.....

A few people have told me they would be up for it- so who's keen? Put your name out there, here in this thread.

[sailaway]

Looks interesting and challenging. I should be well recovered from my GNW attempt so will throw my hat tentatively in the ring for this night time run.

[Innes]

Keen
tentative

[rodthehornet]

Sounds good.  Will be in for 3 x reps (hopefully).

[Koala1]

Hmmm, tempted.  Depends on Christmas festivities and plans.

Would probably only be up for 2 reps, plus I may start a bit earlier to get more daylight.

Edited by Koala1, 09 November 2009 - 06:44 PM.

[actionman]

I'm in

[Nickelass]

Keen for a 6 hour.

[ScamBullant]

6hr two weeks before Bogong is the goods for me I think. Just have to get SWMBO on the right moment to mention this adjunct to the festive season plans

[trailpuddin]

Koala1, on Nov 9 2009, 07:44 PM, said:

Hmmm, tempted.  Depends on Christmas festivities and plans.
Would probably only be up for 2 reps, plus I may start a bit earlier to get more daylight.

Darn I'll be up north over christmas otherwise I would have joined you Koala - it would have been fun - a good opportunity for some right proper silliness.

[Koala1]

Oh TP thats a shame - yep, would have been a good opportunity for silliness.  But I'm sure there will be more opportunities to do this again in the future (she whispers quietly.....good training for Wild Endurance too......)

So when you get back, lets do Kedumba reps!  

[milov]

I have tried that hill at 9am and at 3pm. But I havn't yet tried it at 4am... perhaps I should give this run a go.

milov

[ScamBullant]

Fast approaching, so confirming my start in this one. Might try and hit a few practice runs over this small bump in the beautiful Blue Mts before Boxing day.  

[rodthehornet]

I am still in.  Are we still starting at 7pm......

Does Dominos deliver to Kedumba at 12mn??  I am looking around 5:00-5:30 for 3 reps and would be gold to have a pizza/beers finish.

[Mister G]

Dominos? Dear God....

Still in myself.... I really need the training....

[FlyingFist]

Throw my hat in also.

[ScamBullant]

FlyingFist, on Dec 18 2009, 08:36 PM, said:

Throw my hat in also.

Dont throw your hat, put it on your head. It serves its pupose much better this way and is less likely to hit some poor unsuspecting runner below you ("Ouch that really hurt, who throws a shoe hat anyway")

[rodthehornet]

Mister G, on Dec 15 2009, 12:37 AM, said:

Dominos? Dear God....

I would have said Victoria's, but it is no more.......

[Fred]

I'm sort of half, a wee bit, in.

[terry]

I will be driving down from Tamworth with my brother who has agreed to drive us back in the morning while i catch up on some sleep.

12 hours of driving may sound a bit obsessive just to do some hill reps but F---k i love the blue mountains.

I ran the Solitary loop yesterday i reached the river in 5hr 15 min and managed 1hr from the river to the gates, Keeping each 15km rep under 2 hours will be a good challenge but very doable. My plan is to do 5 reps under 10hours. six in 12 hours would be pushing it with only 2 weeks before B2H, maybe another time.

[trailpuddin]

terry, on Dec 20 2009, 09:11 PM, said:

I ran the Solitary loop yesterday

National Sparks are going to be sending us a bill for track maintenance soon there's that much traffic going over the hill.

Feeling like a fat lazy tart (or chunky piece of pud') for not joining you all at Kedumba, the sibling and I are now doing the equivilant up here on Winns Mountain in Myall Lakes NP. If we get a good clear night the stars will be incredible.

[B+]

I might turn up for a lap or 2, just need to see how thwe family side of things pans out over the festive days.

Train safe

[Koala1]

Hello - still hoping to make this unless festivities work against me.  Will probably be starting at 5pm as well, to get a bit more daylight.


Looking through the list of people who have put their hands up - looks like:

Mister G
Sailaway (tentative)
Innes (tentative)
RodTheHornet
Koala1 (starting 5pm)
Actionman
Nickelass
Scambullant
Milov
FlyingFist
Fred (possible 5pm starter too)
Terry
Trailpuddin (in spirit - running the equivalent up in Winns Mountain)
B+ (tentative)


Have I missed anyone?


Mister G - are there many trail turns off the route we take up and back?  Is it possible to take a wrong turn?

[ScamBullant]

She Who Must Be Obeyed, I believe is planning to run with Fred. Though we will struggle to make 5pm.

In terms of turns there is only one and you go right on the way down at the sign and left on the way up at the sign.

Edit: because I just realised my lack of left right understanding was going to send a heap of people off into banned territory

Edited by ScamBullant, 23 December 2009 - 05:48 PM.

[Mister G]

Turn right at the junction of dirt roads on the way down and the reverse on the way up. The turnaround point is the Jamison Creek causeway, which is signposted.

Just a reminder, the start is NOT at Kedumba Gates, but rather the top of the hill about 800m before the gates. There is a small parking area on the right for the (unsignposted) trail to Sunset Rock Lookout and on the left there is a NPWS sign.

Starting from the gates robs us of some extra vertical.

Edited by Mister G, 23 December 2009 - 11:57 AM.

[rodthehornet]

ScamBullant, on Dec 23 2009, 11:42 AM, said:

In terms of turns there is only one and you go left on the way down at the sign and left on the way up at the sign.

Now you will confuse everyone....  I thought it was right on the way down and left on the way back????  Left on the way down could give you a broken nose as you run into the wall.

Surely this would have been a question when you joined the BMMC????

[Mister G]

I think I can now see how Scam intends to win this....

[Koala1]

Hello - thanks for the info.  Prefering not to break my nose, so I'll turn right then  

SB - am flexible on time - just really wanted to do one lap in daylight to find my way before doing the next lap in the dark and 5pm seemed good.  (So I know what to look out for when my light is limited)

I think Fred will work something out for us.

See you all there - probably on the trail.  You'll catch me.

K1

[ScamBullant]

Sorry for the miss information above, I have edited to correct my self. More a left is which way thing rather than an attempt to send people out back looking for Brittish Bushwalkers.

Now to figure out why my feet are hurting so much today?

  

[Mister G]

The weather looks promising.

Saturday Dec 26 Rain 15°C 17°C
Sunday Dec 27 Rain 15°C 18°C

Good temps for running.

[Nickelass]

Was looking forward to this one, unfortunately festivities and family commitments mean I can no longer make it.

Hope you have a great run.

[Koala1]

Updated list for boxing day

Koala1, on Dec 23 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

Looking through the list of people who have put their hands up - looks like:

Mister G
Sailaway (tentative)
Innes (tentative)
RodTheHornet
Koala1 (hoping to start at 5pm)
Actionman
Nickelass
Scambullant
Mrs Scambullant
Milov (? Also possibly running the Garie and / or Quarry Rd   )
FlyingFist
Fred
Terry
Trailpuddin (in spirit - running the equivalent up in Winns Mountain)
B+ (tentative)

[Fred]

It's fair to say that I am far more excited about this than I am about Santa.  

Can't wait!!

[milov]

Hey all,

12 hours of kedumba is off the menu for me this weekend. Spending time with the family is too rare an occurance to miss out on. Y'all have fun out there!

milov

[Donk]

I'm keen for a run tonight. I'm Thinking either 3 laps or 6hrs, whichever one comes first.

My old man might also come up for a run.

[Koala1]

Lovely and misty up here in the upper mountains.  Should make for perfect running conditions later.

See you all out on the trail.

[FlyingFist]

I'm afraid the hat I threw in earlier appears to not be mine. I don't think I can make this one now.
Something about an early ride Sunday.

The weather looks ideal for either some quick laps (for those looking for an excuse to not run for 6-12 hours) or many laps (for those looking for an excuse to take it 'easy').
I may make it up for moral support.

Have fun.


FF

[Mister G]

Relaxing in front of an open fire at the moment with a cool (15 C), misty day outside. Going to be a fun one tonight.

[rodthehornet]

Are the BMMC extending the hospitality to a bit of an aid station????

I got a bit stuck today.  Was going out to do a food shop for some goodies, but didnt realise all the shops would be shut.  Trying to get together some stuff now, but struggling for some variety.  EDIT: Disregard, went for a drive and after visiting a few shops, managed to get some bread etc.

See you all around 6.30pm

Edited by rodthehornet, 26 December 2009 - 02:54 PM.

[sailaway]

Ok. looking forward to a good 12hr run and work out those calories that are hanging about after the festive season feast. See you all up there soon.

Edit: BTW I'm up for the full 12hrs.

Edited by sailaway, 26 December 2009 - 01:00 PM.

[Koala1]

Heading to the start shortly.

Don't wait for me at the start, I will already be running.  Say hi when you catch me.

I'm hoping to just do a couple of laps.

[Koala1]

Wow, wow and wow again - what an absolutely amazing run!     This has to be one of the best around for Six Foot training - thank you Mister G for organising this.

Quite a tough run - on the way down though you get to see all the views (or I did as I started in the daylight) and with all the mist it was really atmospheric.  It was quite wet at the start, but down in the valley, it was clear.

The run down lulls you into a "feel great" scenario and I measured 7.79km of down hill to the turnaround at Jamison Creek.  The return back up the same hill is, shall we say, a challenge and never seems to stop.  I am in awe of those of you who stayed out there for the full 12 hours and kept running the laps.  I aimed for 2 laps, but ended up with 1.5, which on a first trip out on this track was enough for me.  (I could feel my right calf tightening, so didn't want to overdo things)

Great to catch up with everyone and to meet some new CRs.  Thanks to Actionman for manning the aid station - did you stay there all night too?

Recover well everyone and hope to see you out there again sometime soon!

K1

[rodthehornet]

Thanks Mr.G and BMMC for dragging me up the mountains (again) to have a go at running Kedumba.  Been keen to have a go at this for a while and it was a great night.Very well organised with the aid table set up just above the cutting, adding a km and 80m to the loop.  Very social run with a few spectators, bit of a break for food/drink between reps and a couple of beers consumed by the masses gathered.

Ended up doing 2.5 reps.  Ran the first 2 and went soft on the last rep, cutting it short at the intersection and mix of walk/run return.  All up the full reps measured 7.64km with 644m of elevation change.

Elevation chart attached.  Missed recording the first 2km of the run, but you get the idea from the chart.  If you want to test your endurance over long hills, this is the place to have a go.

See you all next time.

Hornet

Attached Files

•  Hill_reps_at_Kedumba.jpg   82.96K   24 downloads

[Mick]

rodthehornet, on Dec 27 2009, 10:50 AM, said:

Ended up doing 2.5 reps.  Ran the first 2 and went soft on the last rep, cutting it short at the intersection and mix of walk/run return.  All up the full reps measured 7.64km with 644m of elevation change.

Great work Rod. I am impressed for anyone to not walk up that hill. To run two (and a bit) is great.

What was your down / up times ?

PS Plenty of softies at Quarry Road walking the much smaller hills today.

[ScamBullant]

Great night out with Mister G's (Clayton's for me anyway) 12hrs of Kedumba. Got in the early start with She who must Be Obeyed and Fred at 6.30 (having missed the initial 6.00 start as SWMBO insisted on checking that every public amenities building in Wentworth Falls was locked) with the aim of trying to get in as much of the first lap in the light.

Headed down with SWMBO and Fred on the first descent and enjoyed the social nature of the evenings beginnings. Particularly the nervous chatter that was emanating from the two as the contemplated there first encounter with Kedumba. Turned at the creek and made a steady ascent first time round meeting up with le peloton as they made there way down, clearly going to catch me some time heading back up.

Around the overhang on the way up the mist combined with the falling light pasted a unique perspective to the valley surronds and I found myself constantly drifting into the environment around me. Only to be rudely awakened by the sharpening slopes of Kedumba at numerous intervals.

At the top was contemplating scraping any more laps as the beers and roast from the days 2.00pm lunch were acting as negative influences on my decision making. Thankfully Rodthehornet was heading out for his second so joined him on the descent to Jamison Creek. The darkness of night with cloud cover and misty rain reduced vision to the immediate spacing provided by the head light and as a result foot placement became difficult. As well as the fact that there must have been someone hidding in the bushes throwing sticks between my legs.

This reduced visibility also meant that on the return leg up at no point was it clear what the slope had in store for you beyond the next step. Leading to a strange sense of running to stride by stride feel. The benefit being that on occasions you suddenly found yourself accelerating unexpectedly as the slope eased off beneath you.

Lost Rod around 4-5mins into the ascent (ie he ran away from me not the other way round) and settled into the metronomic pace I enjoy on such climbs expecting to run solo to the summit again. Just past the turn (left not right) found Rod again as he had stopped to chat with Jan and then again for a talk with Mister G. Ran with Rod, and all though at times he began to pull away on the stepper section, a voice uttering 'stay with me' was motivation enough to push a little harder and try to hook on.

At the top was incredibly thankful for Rod dragging me through the second lap. Splits for the day worked out at:

52mins 49secs, descent with SWMBO and Fred
3mins 54 secs, waiting another pit stop
1hr 10mins 32secs, solo ascent
14mins 24secs, doubting ability to run another lap
42mins 38secs, descent with Rodthehornet
1hr 4mins 29secs chasing Rodthehornet back up again

All up very happy with the run and thankful for the experience of these hills with B2H wet weather pack on. SWMBO pumped after her one and a half laps having never run on anything resembling this sort of climb before and on only her second night run following W2G by full moon in Sept.

Thanks to Actionman for hanging around at the top despite injury preventing any running yourself.

[rodthehornet]

Mick, on Dec 27 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

What was your down / up times ?

3x down
6x up
4x down
6x up    

Last 1/2 lap doesnt count.

Edited by rodthehornet, 27 December 2009 - 05:37 PM.

[Fred]

Wow - talk about bang for your buck!  What a cool run down and what a tough journey back up!

Huge thanks to Scambullant and SWMBO for picking me up, taking me up there and for running with me.  Very much appreciated.  You two made me feel very relaxed about a run I was quite apprehensive about, and the camaraderie on the way up there was a great way to put the nerves at ease.  Ditto the run down to the river, where, for some reason I was oblivious to the return journey!  

It took me about one minute or less on the way back up to realise that SWMBO was way way way fitter than me as she powered effortlessly up the hill and I started to feel very unfit, and noisy - panting like someone in the latter stages of childbirth.  She kept saying, "lets run this wee bit" and I kept thinking "are you freaking mad?".  But run some of it we did, at one stage I felt lightheaded and had an out of body experience, I think that is when I tripped over the stick, wouldn't be a decent trail run if Sonia didn't fall over.

Anyway, thankfully we had stopped running and were power walking and I felt much more comfortable, until there was a loud rustling in the bushes beyond and then a hairy face with pointy ears were looking straight at me.  Scared the living  crap out of me and I grabbed Helen (Koala 1 who had now joined us) by the arm and let out a yell, who subsequently grabbed SWMBO's arm, and yet another yell.  It was a kangaroo / wallaby, but when you are least expecting such a beast to appear, it can certainly get the adrenaline flowing.

About that point we had to put on our headlamps and that was when I saw the funny side of the night.  Here we were, in the bush, on a Saturday night, in the rain, sweating like mad power walking / running up a very large hill.  The very light misty rain caught in the headlamp made almost a disco lamp effect, it would have been very pretty had it not been so offputting.  I was at one stage mesmerised by the dancing light in front of my eyes.  About four kms from the top, Sailaway caught up with us, and it was lovely to run with him and have a chat.  He must be the most resourceful person when it comes to running to work, I am still giggling at his shower story!

We got onto the relative flat and some eejit suggested running,  and by this stage my achilles and calves were totally shot.  It was like running with lead weights on my feet and my ankles were just screaming at me to stop, but there was no way I was going to be left behind in the dark and the rain so I kept going.  

I was never so happy to see the dim glow of the cars at the "aid station" (which was better than most races - good on you guys).

I cannot believe some of these guys did repeats of this hill in the dark for 12 hours.  Total respect.  However, despite this being my first time up on the top of the mountain, I will be back, and Koala and I have already planned our next training session on this very hill.

Thank you Mister G for organising this, it is great to find new, challenging training ground and thanks so much to Scambullant and SWMBO for the lift up and the company and the encouragement.

[shogun]

Missed the early start but arrived about 12:30am for two laps to find that only two souls were left out there - Mister G and Louis. Quite surreal running down to the creek and was surpriseed that I got there quite quickly. With Louis on his third repeat and about 20-30 minutes in front I enjoyed having someone to chase and caught him right at the top.

Took a brief break while chatting to Mel and Mister G before providing company to Louis while he embarked on his fourth repeat. Two was enough for me. Finished strongly over the last 30 minutes. Arrived home and found I couldn't sleep but I will tonight!!!

[Donk]

I had an enjoyable time last night. There more time i spend on Kedumba pass, the more we become friends. What a Mountain pass!
I was planning on 3 laps, but i realised after 1 1/2 laps that 2 would be easier than 3, and i felt something that remotely felt like my ITB. I ended up having to leave in a hurry also because i seemed to be suffering mild hyperthermia. I was shivering even with Mrs G's blanket around me. And it's the middle of summer!!

I love watching the european mountain running videos on youtube where the runners ascend into cloud and heavy fog as they rise up the mountain and that's what one felt like last night. I came to realise that it was easier to run with no headlight as the fog was so dense. Great run. I don't know if Loius or Mr G did 12hrs but i am very impressed if they did. Good effort actually from all who were there. Some first-timers- Mrs scam, Koala1 and fred, also some old hands who remembered going down Kedumba pass when Kedumba farm still had cattle and a farmer who smelt like whiskey.

Special thanks also to Action Man And Mrs G who crewed at the top 600 odd meters above with Pizza, beer, coke, and a cheerful welcome.
Thanks Mr G for the organising. You must be sore today.

[sailaway]

A great evening/night run.

Started just minutes after 7pm with some 8 others. Not having done this track run before I started off with my hydration pack fully loaded with food and a spare change of clothes as I wasn't sure what the weather had in store for us. The first half of the track just drops gently and you can really give your quads a real workout going down. I averaged 40 min on the down leg and 1hr20min on the up leg, coming back up was far tougher. I never contemplated running up all the way, particularly if I was intending to stay out here till 7am. I did manage to run up some of the not so steep hills but soon backed off and just powered walked.  The first lap was done right on 2hrs and without the head light. After the first lap I made the decision that the back pack was coming off and just run with a 650ml drink bottle which I'd fill and drop off at the deviation; close to half way down.  On the second lap I use the head torch on the down leg but happy to turn it off going up and just let my eye acclimatise to the darkness. There were instances when it was so dark due to the cloud cover, mist and fog that I needed to temporarily turn on the torch for fear of wondering over the side of the track and down the precipice; last thing I wanted was to spend the night alone in some deep gully with broken bones. Managed to complete the 2 lap right on 2 hrs again and the motivating factor was the thought that someone had put on my mind that there'd be pizza waiting. As I checked into the pit stop actionman offered me some pizza and without any hesitation I scoffed it down with a good amount of coke which Mr G supplied..........just magic!  A quick change into some dry clothes and an extra layer to get me through the 11 degrees predicted I commenced my third lap. By this stage Hornet was the only other runner out on the third lap and was aprox 5 km out in-front.  3km on the way down I crossed paths with Jan who was on the last stretch of his 2nd lap and complained about his knees beginning to hurt on the down hill running and decided to call it a day with 2 laps. I then noticed a light coming up the hill and thought it may be Mr G but turned out to be Hornet who also complained about tightening of his hammies or quads? and would also call it a day after 2.5 laps. A little further down I crossed Mr G coming up with a little over 5 km to go on his 2nd and last lap. Oh well, with no one out here to keep me company except the odd wallaby and owl I decided it was ipod time. To the tunes of Radio Head, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Living End and a few other lively bands I went on my merry way trying not to pay any attention to what my body was saying. I reached Jamison Creek, which is half way, and decided to turn off the ipod. Just wanted to experience the silence of the Aussie bush at night. With just the noise of the creek water trickling and dancing over the rocks and a few deep breaths I commenced my uphill trek. With the torch off, I knew the track became steeper when my pace steps became laboured and short. Although the weather bought no rain, everything around me was wet, moist and very damp. On the down leg I had no issue  with staying warm; even managing to break into a sweat. On the uphill leg it was different. The further I travelled up hill the cooler I got. The sweaty running gear felt like a wet blanket and this just made me want to keep on power walking up the hills to avoid getting too cold.  About 3.5km up I noticed a distant light coming down hill and turned on my light.  I then recalled someone saying back at the check point that Shogun (Brendan) would be starting at midnight.  As we crossed paths Brendan said he'd catch me on the way up and didn't surprise me as he was still fresh. That 3rd up leg really started to take its toll and the mind was working overtime trying to reason why I should pull out when a reached the checkpoint.  It was starting to make sense. I could be in bed within 1.5hrs, I said to myself. The up leg was starting to feel much longer than the one before and the temp was getting cooler. At times large drops of dew that had formed on the trees above would come crushing down hitting me on the head.  My full attention turned to dispelling the negative thoughts and distracting my mind was my main focus. The deviation was the main milestone as I knew I had a cool bottle of coke waiting for me.  The coke didn't touch the sides; clearly I was dehydrated  and I just thought of my next drink some 3.5km up the track. My next battle was the dreaded "sleep monster" who would regularly tap me on the shoulder and take over. For a few minute I would be just walking what I thought was a straight line with my eyes closed until I was waken by my walking into some bush and ditch. "Wow not much to go until I finish" I kept saying to myself! The first gate, then the last gate, nearly there.  On that last stretch I notice a bright light from a car coming down the road.  It stopped and I leaned inside to be greeted by Mr G and Mel and before I could say a word they handed to me a bowl of baked potatoes just out of the oven; still steaming....absolutely delicious.   These hot spuds were made by Mel who had gone home and cooked then for us runners...she's such a thoughtful person . They tasted fabulous but I had a problem; as much as I wanted to swallow these tasty delights I realised that I could not swallow them as my mouth was as dry as a camel's ass. A quick trot to the checkpoint, I guzzled close to a litre of water and coke. I could then eat to my heart's content. By this stage the only one there was Mr G & Mel and Shogun who had just caught up to me 400mtrs from the finish.  After a short discussion I mentioned that I may call it a day but Shogun had other ideas! "You wanna go out again?"..........(short pause)  "not really" I said.  "Come on, I'll keep you company!"  says Brendan.  "You sure mate? not much running left in me you know !" .......... I will be slowing you down heaps".  "That's OK, I do need to learn to walk on these runs" says Brendan.   Damn ! Not the response I was waiting for. Ah well, the more I think about it the higher the chances of calling it a day. One more drink to wash down the delicious spuds, a quick thank you to Mel & Mr G and off on our way to complete lap 4.  The first km was slow and sluggish, trying to keep the food and drink down.  We both maintained a steady pace going down with not much variance from the other down legs but I knew that the up leg was going to be hard.  I dropped off the drink bottle at the deviation and continued on. When we reached the creek I insisted to Brendan that he not wait for me.  He agreed that he would stay until we reach the deviation on the way up.  When we arrived at the deviation Brendan ran and was not long before he disappear into the night mist and fog.  "One step at a time" I said to myself. I cranked up the music, put my head down, tail up and just moved forward. That down hill running had taken it's toll on my back muscles and had to stop at times to give the back a stretch. That bloody sleep monster tormented me all along that last final lone stretch to the car. Tried to run the flats but to no avail. Just happy to walk the last kms. Arrive to the check point at 4.30am and after changing into some dry clothes and packing up I was off.  Reached home at 6.00am, a quick shower and then let the sleep monster take full control of my trashed soul.

A huge thanks to:
Mr G for organising a run in a beautiful part of the world, not that I could see much of it.

to Mel for her thoughtfulness and the yummy home made warm spuds,  

to actionman for looking after the checkpoint,

and to Shogun for his company over the last lap.  Not sure I would have gone beyond the 3rd lap if not for his encouragement and fine company.


A note to self:must come out here on daylight hours in winter for some solid hill reps and then get to really enjoy the scenery.

Edited for spelling & grammar.

Edited by sailaway, 31 December 2009 - 12:50 PM.

[shogun]

Louis I seem to remember you encouraging me to head out on that last rep and not the other way around...