11 replies to this topic

[Morley]

I've had my share of injurys since 2006. I've had a range of them and none twice. When I think I'm on top of them and get back to some hills, tempo or interval runs another injury comes along. I'm not a serious runner but keen to get that PB at 10K. I did a reasonable estimated 48 minutes for 10K at Melbourne (Coffee Club 9.2K!!!) on a diet of easy runs 4 times per week since a knee injury earlier in the year. My PB for 10K is 46:02.

Since Melbourne I've eased back with some speed sessions once a week. It got me thinking of what types of sessions are suitable for injury prone runners? My 4 sessions have been:

15K with the 4th, 8th and 12th km at 10k race pace and all other Kms easy.

2K easy with 500m at 10K race pace and 1K easy repeats over 12K.

6K with 2K easy and increase each Km by 10-15 seconds with last Km at 10K race pace.

Sorry - My 4th session has been 3K out easy and 3K return at 10K race pace + 15 seconds.

The emphasis has been on plenty of warm-up and lengthy recovery sections or slow increase in pace. Plenty of stretching and self massage with a foam roller and spikey ball.

So far so good and I saw some improvement at the OD 10K. My next race is a flat Sri Chinmoy 10K at Williamstown on 13 December and I'm hoping it's not a windy day.

What do others do or recommend for speed sessions for injury prone runners?

Cheers.

Edited by Morley, 02 December 2009 - 07:05 PM.

[grimsey]

Morley i would check out why you are getting injured before starting any speed work.

[sigatoka]

Morley,
I've been much the same, injury prone that is, and usually only manage three months of running consistently before an ankle or knee needs a long rest. This year, however, I've managed to run a bit more than in past years, largely because I finally beat a chronic achilles problem. Learning to stretch properly has been a bit of a breakthrough, i.e. after runs and during the day whenever I remember to do it. Learning that orthotics best suit a neutral shoe was another - I'd always been told by salespeople to go for pronation-correcting shoes. Learning to ditch junk miles is the third.
I've just started getting a little more serious about my speed - I enjoy bush runs of around 8-12 k and that's all I used to do, same-paced, ahead of any 10k-ish race. Generally I'd run just short of 40 minutes in a 10k race; it stayed that way for years. Recently I began restricting myself to one or two such (enjoyable) runs a week, supplemented by a hard five k and a hard mile. (i.e as hard as I can without competition). It seems to be improving my 10k time (I recently ran 47.40 for the Run Geelong 12.1km event) while at the same time putting less repetitive strain on my hips, knees and ankles. That's the theory/hope, anyway.
Of course, I probably should do interval training, but I find it a drag - whereas I get a kick out of trying to beat or reach my PBs in the mile or 5km. The speedy stuff tends to test motivation, so I reckon you go for whatever works for you.

[Odie]

Morley, on Dec 2 2009, 08:00 PM, said:

I've had my share of injurys since 2006. I've had a range of them and none twice. When I think I'm on top of them and get back to some hills, tempo or interval runs another injury comes along. I'm not a serious runner but keen to get that PB at 10K. I did a reasonable estimated 48 minutes for 10K at Melbourne (Coffee Club 9.2K!!!) on a diet of easy runs 4 times per week since a knee injury earlier in the year. My PB for 10K is 46:02.

Since Melbourne I've eased back with some speed sessions once a week. It got me thinking of what types of sessions are suitable for injury prone runners? My 4 sessions have been:

15K with the 4th, 8th and 12th km at 10k race pace and all other Kms easy.

2K easy with 500m at 10K race pace and 1K easy repeats over 12K.

6K with 2K easy and increase each Km by 10-15 seconds with last Km at 10K race pace.

Sorry - My 4th session has been 3K out easy and 3K return at 10K race pace + 15 seconds.

The emphasis has been on plenty of warm-up and lengthy recovery sections or slow increase in pace. Plenty of stretching and self massage with a foam roller and spikey ball.

So far so good and I saw some improvement at the OD 10K. My next race is a flat Sri Chinmoy 10K at Williamstown on 13 December and I'm hoping it's not a windy day.

What do others do or recommend for speed sessions for injury prone runners?

Cheers.

I concur with Grimsey. Check out why you are getting injured.

Maybe you need to build a better base before you contemplate speed work. Your body needs to be prepared for the stress of faster work. Longer slower run/walks and incorporate some x-training. You could look at water running in the deep end of the pool with a vest floaty thing on. Short sprints using the resistance of the water. Great for speed. Try to mimic your normal running action as much as possible. Even short steep hill sprints with full recovery will build a lot of speed. This is not as stressful on the body as you may think.

Running is a fascinating sport you will learn a lot. i have learnt that you must be patient, build a base consistently so you can prepare for the speed onslaught. Read up on Lydiard and go back to basics. Also keep asking questions. There is a lot of knowledge out there in cool running world.

Hope this helps and you attain your goals.

[DontStop]

For what it's worth, I find as I get older I struggle to recover more from reps than I do tempo. It's possibly the continual whoah - to - go efforts of hard interval sessions that give my achilles grief, but tempo runs at a pace that isn't much slower, don't affect me nearly as much.

But I guess if you're doing tempo sessions, and you identify that they keep hurting you, then maybe best to figure out why (as others have said).

Good luck with it.

[twosheds]

I too have had a fair share of injuries. I would say ow that the focus of my 'quality "runs is control and pace judgement rather than speed or intensity. When my achilles was sore I figured out that running below 4:30/km would hurt it- so i concentrated on staying just above that., even though i could have done the reps much faster. In time - I could make it 4:20 without reinjury and can now occasionally run a sub 4/min. On threshold runs- i run at a very honest threshold pace ( ie truley 12-20 sec/km slower than 10km pace)- I always tended to go too fast on these previously) . Interestingly - even though my 1km reps are a little slower than they once were- I am running just as well over the longer distances with less effort. Decreasing my pace seems to have had a positive effect on my running. Concentrating a lot on pace judgement means i never go out too fast in a race- which makes for pleasant racing too. T really want to be still running in another coupl of decades- preserving that is more important to me than afew second here and there.
Great topic - good luck
twosheds

[Peterhorse]

Hi Morely
another one who has contstant injuries. i reckon you gotta look at whether they are either overuse/repetitive strains type injuries or acute damage type injuries. i get the former if i ramp up the volume too quickly or run my longer runs a bit too fast too soon. i get the latter when i do what two sheds describes and attack the speed sessions too hard (no matter what their format).
either way it's a case of preparing the non-aerobic parts of the body (connective tissue, tendons, joints etc) for the load that they about to be subjected.
the longer intervals are ok, but i reckon 1k reps are still good for 10k if you do more of them (say 6-7) at a slightly easier pace than normal (e.g. 4:20/k vs say 4:10/k each effort so they are all even and not your hardest all out effort).
also, i'm not sure but my gut tells me that the length of recvery between intervals is less important on the injury front than the intensity of the running itself, so i'd keep those pretty short (under 1minute) so the body get used to dealing with lactic acid better for the intentisty of a 10k race etc.
Stick with the core strength too, lots of injuries result from porr muscle strength in that department.
good lcuk
PH

Edited by Peterhorse, 03 December 2009 - 09:21 PM.

[Quinkin]

My training is really basic

no intervals

a 12km progression run

a race every week in there is one on. Racing for me is the best kind of speed work. I go to a local track event and run a 200m and 3000m race. This really sharpens me up.

a 16km mid week long run

a 20km weekend long run

Run some quality kms if I'm feeling fresh in my weekly runs.

Doing less hard speed work, and intervals makes me fresh enough to run harder in other runs.

I'm still getting faster doing this simple plan. last injury was a hamstring strain in September

Edited by Quinkin, 04 December 2009 - 06:41 AM.

[judo]

Gday, i am another one thats had a fair share of injuries . For me i like to do all my speedwork in minutes not distance ie 5x3min with 2 min recovery. With this system you are running for time, adjusting the pace on how you feel. For me it takes the risk out of running a set distance, and thinking i have to meet that time goal, no matter what. Eg i may be exhausted from the days work and then getting to the track knowing that i have to hit 70 sec for 400 metre no matter what. For me this was a sure way of getting injured. Now i have my speed sets worked out in time. 3 min is 3 min, pace depending on how i feel. The important thing is just to keep the pace even. I try to incorporate two sessions a week into my program, ie one session of longer reps eg 3x8 min and another shorter rep session of say 10x1min. I really enjoy these sessions and the best thing is they can be done anywhere, ie trails, road, or even round and round an oval.

JUDO

[don27]

I'd be more concerned about what is causing so many injuries before starting speedwork. A good physio with a running background may be able to give you some feedback as to what sessions may be appropriate & as to what shape your body is in. Also looking through your old running diaries & seeing when you got injured after the sessions that you did. As you get older you need more recovery between quality sessions. So massage regularly could help recovery from tough sessions. Also when you start up doing speed sessions again start at a lower volume & build up slowly to what you were doing previously. A recovery week every so often with no intervals & just doing some strides to keep the legs ticking over. If you do get injured it is best to get onto it as quickly as possible to prevent downtime from running. If I have a niggle I never let it go for more than a week before seeing a physio & usually find this way I don't have as much time off running.

[Morley]

Thanks for replys. It's interesting to see how others deal with similar problems. The injuries started in 2006 with an overuse Achilles problem that saw me out of running for 5 months. I wasn't doing any speed work at the time. The most recent was a tracking of the Patella which had me off running for about 2 months. Lots of physio, massage and rehab to rectify an imbalance problem. Tight glutes and ITB were the main cause. I've been more careful with post run cool down and stretching and stretching and some core work is a normal morning routine even on non-running days. To be honest I have probably had ITB issues since 2006 when I was training for 2 marathons.

Getting the balance is the key for me. I now have 3 non-running days per week. A typical week would be 4 runs of 2 x 6K; 6 - 10K and a longer run of 12 - 15K and usualy do about 30 - 34K per week. Together with the self massage and stretching I think things are going okay. The other big change has been doing my easy runs at a slower pace. I enjoy doing a speed session on a trail and usually alternate between a shorter run and a longer one. Todays was over 12K with 500@10K pace and 1K easy repeats along the Maribyrnong River. It's the 3rd time I've done it over the last 2 months and it was a lot easier than the first. I cut down the recovery a little as suggested.

Thanks for the feedback and support. I'll reread the comments. Good luck with your balancing act. Cheers.

[Davo83]

As another on the comeback trail after injury I’ve started following a few simple rules which will hopefully help me run injury free.

Build a decent base, and get to appropriate race weight before starting any serious training.
Don’t run through niggles or soreness – wait till I fully recover.
Minimize the amount of running in spikes and flats.
Proper warm ups and warm downs.
DTM once a month.
Incorporating low impact active recovery, such as swimming, after track days as these sessions really take it out of me.


Cheers

Dave