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Sub 1hr 30 Half?


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#1 pommyrunner

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 05:06 AM

Just wondered if anyone thinks i can achieve a sub 1hr 30 half marathon?  I have only ran 1 before and it was last August and took me 1hour 52:52.  Have maintained average fitness since but have only ran 6miles max since.  Am beginning serious training tomorrow for the sri chinmoy half at end May.  Do you think it is doable or is that too much of a jump?  I only normally have time to run 3 or 4 times a week but will have the chance to run alot more in the last 4 weeks before race day as we move to oz 5th may and will be holidaying for 6months! Let me know what u think! Thanks

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#2 Rico

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 06:57 AM

I think it would depend on the circumstances of the 1:52.  If that was off the back of a long hard buildup then improvements are likely to be small.  But if it was done on a whim with bugger all training then you can expect a big improvement when you train hard for it.

#3 vat

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:40 AM

Need things like age, gender, weight, time available and willingness to train, and so on.

That said, if you've only got four months between now and then with little base, you're probably not going to achieve anything that four weeks worth of work before the event will be able to fix (and you'd lose a week of that anyway with tapering).

#4 Kandingo

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:51 PM

No
your best possible result is 1.45.11

#5 funrunner63

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 06:35 PM

View PostKandingo, on Jan 27 2011, 12:51 AM, said:

No
your best possible result is 1.45.11
Who knows?.?.?........ the Gnarly Old Dude knows.

#6 Quinkin

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 06:52 PM

No. Starting to train only 4 weeks before a half is not  serious training.

#7 pommyrunner

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:15 PM

Sorry, i meant I would have 4 weeks just before the race day where i could run every day if i wanted.  I am beginning training today and can put in 3, probably 4 runs a week plus some cross training.  My last race was done with about 10 weeks of "serious" training 3 or 4 times a week.  And then I got complacent and did bugger all for a bout 5 weeks and then kinda just ran it :)    I'm female, 27, 63 kg.  Last half was on road but quite hilly as we are on a scottish island!  I originally thought 1.45 was a good aim but if anyone has any advive for that sub 1hr 30 now with the new info that would be fab!!

#8 CountryMuzz

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:29 PM

You are dreaming. You don't knock 1min/km off a real race time without some serious work over an extended period of time. Either that, or you have heaps of untapped talent and just jogged your last one.

#9 Bellthorpe

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:30 PM

How did you arrive at 1:30? What is it based on?

#10 walshy2

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:42 PM

Based on the info provided I'm another who say's No

#11 Tiddischer

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 01:42 AM

No, I think it is not possible.

For < 1:30 you maybe need around 80 km/week (5 - 7 runs/week), and not only the last few weeks before, that is much too late.

So set a realistic goal of 1:45 or an ambitious goal of 1:40 but not more.

Then you would not be very dissappointed in may.

#12 Tiddischer

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 01:51 AM

Just make a simple calculation:

1:30 is around 4:15 min/km (!)  - could you imagine to manage this pace for 21 km?

your actual PB is around 5:20 (your initial post) or around 5:30 (your profil - I do not know which is the right one), so you have to run every km 1:05 (or even 1:15 ?) min faster.

even your actual 5 km PB is only 4:30.

and you will not train much more than before, apart from the last four weeks, when it is too late for serious improvement.

Edited by Tiddischer, 28 January 2011 - 01:57 AM.


#13 funrunner63

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 04:07 AM

View Postpommyrunner, on Jan 27 2011, 04:15 AM, said:

Sorry, i meant I would have 4 weeks just before the race day where i could run every day if i wanted.  I am beginning training today and can put in 3, probably 4 runs a week plus some cross training.  My last race was done with about 10 weeks of "serious" training 3 or 4 times a week.  And then I got complacent and did bugger all for a bout 5 weeks and then kinda just ran it :)    I'm female, 27, 63 kg.  Last half was on road but quite hilly as we are on a scottish island!  I originally thought 1.45 was a good aim but if anyone has any advive for that sub 1hr 30 now with the new info that would be fab!!
Try running a half marathon per month between now and August, taking 5 minutes off each one. Then you might see how hard the task you've set yourself really is.......

#14 pommyrunner

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 06:04 AM

View Postfunrunner63, on Jan 27 2011, 06:07 PM, said:

Try running a half marathon per month between now and August, taking 5 minutes off each one. Then you might see how hard the task you've set yourself really is.......


ok ok, I get it!!  :) Thanks all for the advice and reality check.  I'm just a novice obviously and I didn't know if it was achievable so if the answer is no then that is fine for me.  I hour 45mins sounds like a reality then?  Obviously I want to put in heaps of hard work between now and then.  What am I looking at 4 to 5 times a week to be in with a chance?  Thanks all for your wealth of advice and patience with me.  We don't have any runnning clubs on my wee island and I don't have anyone else with any running knowledge to talk to. :)  

Also need to get my head around calculating in kms....been stuck on the Pommy miles for too long!

#15 Holly

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 07:57 AM

Good to see that you can address reality! All that advice was good, so all that remains is to wish you luck in your journey.

#16 funrunner63

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 08:35 AM

Hey Pommyrunner,

You'll do fine. I started running 8 (nearly nine years ago), did my first half marathon 1 year later in 1:48ish, and my PB was 2 years ago, 1:32:40ish. Maybe this year will be the year I break 1:30.

Mind you, my body is 20 years older than yours.

You may have heard it before, but "sometimes the journey is more enjoyable than the destination". Enjoy it while you can; some days are better than others.....

FR aka C

#17 jasegroom

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 09:01 AM

Have you seen the McMillan Running Calculator before? You may find this a very useful tool for helping to set realistic race goals, either from shorter race times, or from current training paces (although really you should be using your recent race times to choose your training paces rather than the other way round). A 22:30 5km suggests a 1:44 HM, but assuming you improve your fitness a bit over the next 4 months, I don't see why a 1:40 could not be a possibility. For comparison, this would mean you needed to bring your 5km time down to around 21:38 to be in with a shot.

I'd recommend having a read around that whole McMillan Running site as well, not just the calculator - you'll understand what the calculator tells you a lot better if you do, and there is some great information about how to structure a training programme. Just remember everyone is different though - the theory is a starting point, but you need to work out how it can be adapted best for you. At the end of the day, we're all an experiment of one. I hope you enjoy yours!

#18 Quinkin

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 05:41 PM

I think aiming for a sub 1:45 might be a more realistic and nevertheless challenging target.

Going for a sub 1:30 would require some considerable talent and if you possess that it is a time that would require a long term committment to training.

To run sub 1:30 you would need to finish in the top 2% of all female finishers.
To run sub 1:40 you would need to finish in the top 6% of all female finishers.
To run sub 1:45 you woul need to finish in the top 10% of all female finishers

#19 pommyrunner

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 07:01 PM

View Postfunrunner63, on Jan 27 2011, 10:35 PM, said:

Hey Pommyrunner,

You'll do fine. I started running 8 (nearly nine years ago), did my first half marathon 1 year later in 1:48ish, and my PB was 2 years ago, 1:32:40ish. Maybe this year will be the year I break 1:30.

Mind you, my body is 20 years older than yours.

You may have heard it before, but "sometimes the journey is more enjoyable than the destination". Enjoy it while you can; some days are better than others.....

FR aka C


Thank you - that gives me some idea as to what I can achieve.  The stats on the %s of woman finishers puts some fear in me though  :) but I love a challenge.  I have only ran the one 5km race in a terrible state from a late night and the 1 half marathon so I am not overly sure of my potential.  Living on an island I can't get round to many runs.  I also began training for my 1st half with 2 stone extra of weight after having had 2 babys with only 5 months of non pregnant time in the last 2 years before the half marathon date.  

I'm hoping my move to Australia can be the start of some more serious training as you guys seem to have such an amazing running network out there! ;) Plus the 6 month hols with hubby around means I get to escape the boys as much as I like (no doubt in return for his time at the pub!)

I have been on the mcmillan site and put in my time for that 1 half marathon I completed.  Is this what I should be aiming at for training now or do I put in the time I want to achieve.......after a reality check now around 1.45?!!! You guys are way too patient with me! Pommy AND clueless! :)

#20 CountryMuzz

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 07:44 PM

Why don't you try a 3k or 5k time trial? Run it as fast as you can manage - and then use that as a "race" time for the Mcmillan calculator. That way it will be current - and you can train up from there.

#21 walshy2

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 08:52 PM

I don't think you are clueless Pommyrunner, you asked a fair question and got a bunch of responses

If you had asked whether it was possible to run a sub 90 min Half at some stage I would say yes, absolutely

In Oct 2005 I was a 5"5 fat knacker weighing 84kg who hadn't ran for years

In Sept 2006 I was a 5"5 66kg runner who did the Sydney Half Mara in 88:46

In July 2010 was a 63.8 kg runner who ran a sub 3 marathon

anything may be possible, but it doesnt come easily

Edited by walshy2, 28 January 2011 - 08:53 PM.


#22 pommyrunner

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 05:41 AM

Thanks country muzz, sounds a great idea. Will get onto that.  Walshy, thanks for the vote of confidence.  Your achievements are amazing and they have totally inspired me to push hard for this.  I can only do my best but will try bloody hard doing it!  Are you male or female?  If male I could do with shifting quite a few kilos along my way too! :)

#23 crowpower

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:14 AM

Go for it pommyrunner. Sub 1:30 is hardly the elite level. It just requires a willingness to put in the required training and it looks like you have that! My first half was 1:26 with training after a 1:45 (during a marathon) without any training. I'd ignore the quoted stats, they just put artificial restrictions on people.

I agree with CountryMuzz's advice, do a three mile time trial in under 20 mins and you're halfway there.

#24 Maffrew

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 07:52 PM

1:30 sounds like a big ask given what you've said about your previous training and/or past performances. Having challenging goals is definitely a positive thing, but they also need to be realistic to some extent. That's the approach i've tried to take.

For contrast, i'm male, 26, 75kg and have been running for about 20 months. Last year I did my first half marathon after having been running for around a year. I did 1:36 in that (the Hill to Harbour in Newcastle). I was running with my father in law who I feel really pushed me to do better than I ever could have on my own as he pushed me past my mental limit and past what I thought my physical limit was. I've got two months left until this years Hill to Harbour which will be my 2nd half. I'm not aiming to do 1:30, to be honest i'm not even sure what my goal should be. My training was a bit lacking in recent months as I found it really hard to get out and run on little sleep (that's having a baby for you!) but i've been doing around 50kms per week for the last few weeks and will take that through to the event. My training leads me to believe that I could match last years time and maybe better it by a little bit but it's the mental side of my running that I need to conquer to do well in the half. Physically I think I probably can manage nearer 1:30 but I'm not convinced that I can mentally push myself through that barrier.

#25 pommyrunner

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 04:57 AM

View PostMaffrew, on 30 January 2011 - 07:52 PM, said:

1:30 sounds like a big ask given what you've said about your previous training and/or past performances. Having challenging goals is definitely a positive thing, but they also need to be realistic to some extent. That's the approach i've tried to take.

For contrast, i'm male, 26, 75kg and have been running for about 20 months. Last year I did my first half marathon after having been running for around a year. I did 1:36 in that (the Hill to Harbour in Newcastle). I was running with my father in law who I feel really pushed me to do better than I ever could have on my own as he pushed me past my mental limit and past what I thought my physical limit was. I've got two months left until this years Hill to Harbour which will be my 2nd half. I'm not aiming to do 1:30, to be honest i'm not even sure what my goal should be. My training was a bit lacking in recent months as I found it really hard to get out and run on little sleep (that's having a baby for you!) but i've been doing around 50kms per week for the last few weeks and will take that through to the event. My training leads me to believe that I could match last years time and maybe better it by a little bit but it's the mental side of my running that I need to conquer to do well in the half. Physically I think I probably can manage nearer 1:30 but I'm not convinced that I can mentally push myself through that barrier.


The mental barriers are definitely huge.  When I feel pain I just think of childbirth and then I have nothing to moan about from the run anymore - doesn't help the guys though!  Did a 22 mile week this week (1st serious training week) finishing with an 8mile today.  Half in head wind and 3degree celsius!  1hour 8mins and I found it fairly easy going.  I definitely had more in me when I was done.   Gonna push hard and strong and aim for my 1hr 45mins .  Good luck with your run this year, i'm sure you can do it even with the sleepless nights!  :)

#26 thomo

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 07:34 AM

Sub 1:40 is a very possible goal to achieve. How far under depends on your proper training focus for a half marathon.

You need to make those 3-4 weekly sessions count. Which doesn't mean to hammer each session.

Use your local resources or things on the internet like McMillan or http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/

McMillan predicts currently 1:44:10

A better predicter is http://translate.goo...index.php?id=48 as it uses two different times over two diffrent distances.

Good luck and train smart.

#27 twosheds

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 08:58 AM

As a  rough guide- if you can break 45 for 10km you can break 1:40 for the half. Obviously the work needs to have been done
but this works well as a guide for me.breaking 1;30 for a female really is a good time- not elite but a bloody good time and noone here really knows what you may be capable of. To get under 1;30 i think you would need to be down to near 40 mins/10km
Just start with the 1:45 goal- do some predictors and keep training. who knows what might happen.
I ran my first half at 38 in 1;43- Im also female. Took 4 years and 11 attempts to break 1;40- now nearly a decade later set  anew Pb last year at 1;35 and hopefully still improving. Keep it up and you just never know how much talent you might have.
Good luck and keep us posted
twosheds

#28 BostonCalling

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 01:34 PM

Sub 1.30 Half crazy? Maybe. Coming out here in our Winter, your Summer. Insane!

#29 AndyT

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 03:37 PM

The mental barrier is a toughie. I am hoping to run the GC Half this year. I did it previously in a time of 1:41 with no training. None. I may have run 7kms one day a month before the event.

I would like to get near this time but I am about 15kgs heavier than when I did that time. Also 14 years older. :) I find it hard when running to NOT compare my times with those times I have written down from when I used to train. Sometimes I think I just need to put the stopwatch down and run. My first goal is a 50 minute 10km. I think that's very achievable given my current speeds and training regime. Then I can work on the distance.

#30 Supersam1979

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 04:42 PM

View Postpommyrunner, on 28 January 2011 - 06:04 AM, said:

ok ok, I get it!!  :) Thanks all for the advice and reality check.  I'm just a novice obviously and I didn't know if it was achievable so if the answer is no then that is fine for me.  I hour 45mins sounds like a reality then?  Obviously I want to put in heaps of hard work between now and then.  What am I looking at 4 to 5 times a week to be in with a chance?  Thanks all for your wealth of advice and patience with me.  We don't have any runnning clubs on my wee island and I don't have anyone else with any running knowledge to talk to. :)  

Also need to get my head around calculating in kms....been stuck on the Pommy miles for too long!

This is possible. How do I know - because I did it on very little mileage back in 2008. I have been previously 35KGs heavier than I am now and was fat and lazy. Started running with ex girlfriend (another pommy girl) and did first half in 2007 in 1.50 and was overjoyed to finish as even had to stop and vomit at 11km.

Long story short, I started doing alot more quality work (albeit with a group) and ran 1.28 in the first half of 2008. I believe I should have gone quicker if I had more stamina as blew through 10Km in 38mins and was cruising. I have to add that this course was much tougher than the first flat one. I was only running a max of 40miles per week in those days. Tuesday and Thursday quality and Sunday long run. Take one or two rest days and the rest recovery jogs.

It is a pity that you don't have people to run with as this is the key. I got into the habit of pacing off faster people in the race.

In my instance I had no recent 10km race time to go off, but what has been said above is true. You really need to be running 10KM in 40 - 41 mins or under to be in with a hope of sub 90. But then don't rely too much on calculators. My current half says sub 3 for the marathon, yet I remain on the cusp (for now).

Good luck - be really positive and give it a go. If you believe it and see it in your head then you can and will achieve it.

Edited by Supersam1979, 03 February 2011 - 04:46 PM.


#31 CountryMuzz

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:19 PM

I know I will be called sexist - but you are a bloke Sam. Your 88 minutes is a female equivalent of about 97. If you look at the stats, the ladies run about 10% slower then the men - so a 90 minute target for a woman is like me saying I am going to run low 80's. Now that might be possible - but it won't happen this year.

#32 Supersam1979

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:13 PM

Mate I get totally what you are saying. I was just having this exact chat with my Thursday running crew.

So much of us in life is stuck in the negative. If we have a bad race we search for the negative instead of giving thanks and applying positive learning.

I stick with what I said and think it could be done male or female. The fact is that if you say you won't run that time this year or next year etc then you sure as hell won't. Last year I had the pleasure of pacing a young Canadian girl in a half to her fastest ever time 95. We were stood at the start and she was moaning about lack of training/fitness etc - a bloke next to her was doing the same and both were saying they would not break 97. I asked them if they would come with me and we could get 95. The girl agreed she had nothing to lose and the bloke said he was sure 97 was his top on the day. End result her 95 and big smiles - him 99 and saying at the end he would not have broken 97. He could have had 95 - not because of me, but because he could have believed it.

She believed - she achieved.

Let's try and big this lady up abit for what she is about to try. It costs nothing and hey it can make a big difference.  

Read abit of Bobby McGee and you will see where I am coming from - as he says you don't even have to believe initially - just say and do the actions and stay positive.  

PS: I know loads of girls capable of running under 95.

#33 CountryMuzz

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:47 PM

I agree totally - the psychological side makes the difference between a great run and a mediocre one. What I have said all along is that it is a big improvement in a short time - from a decent time to a great time. And, yeah, there are plenty of women who can get under 90 minutes, but they are in the upper end of the group.

So - pommyrunner has her work cut out with a goal like that - but it can be done. I reckon she should just train hard - and set the goal based on where she is up to pre-race based on a shorter time trial.

And on the day - make sure the goal is ambitious - and chase it like mad. No guts no glory. But to chase a 90 minute run if the pre-race training suggests 105 is just going to get messy. On the other hand, if the pre-race training suggests sub-100 minutes, then go for 95 and see if your mind can get you there.

I like your drive Supersam - hopefully I can talk you into pacing me for a sub 90 one day.

#34 Supersam1979

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 06:33 AM

Thanks mate.

I am just a very average hack here, but I like to see others having goals to shoot for and achieving said goals. Both Jack Daniels and Bobby McGee said they would prefer to coach someone with the right attitude (i.e positive and willing to try new things) than someone with heaps of natural talent who is negative.

I am going to ramble abit now, but please indulge me - in any sport, I find ladies far better to coach than men. The reasons for this are simple. If you tell a lady that we need to do 'A, B & C' to get a good result, then she is likely to follow that formula to the letter, as that is the recipe for success. Many men in the west in sport will listen and then say 'Yes but my way is better' (I know this because I did this all through school and college in various sports).Their way often involves their priorities first (getting drunk, chatting up girls, then doing commercials and then abit of training). Kenyans and Japanese don't do it that way round (different mindsets and more respect for the coach etc). In Japan if the coach says run until you drop then they will do it without question (male or female). They don't have the most naturally talented athletes, but are willing to use what the coach says to attain success.

A ramble, but hey that is the mood I am in today. Two books I recommend if you have not read them already is Amby Burfoot's 'The Runners Guide to the meaning of life' and Bobby McGee's 'Magical Running' - both on Amazon and will change your life and running.

Always, always folks give thanks after any run and then self-congratulate yourself for getting out there. There is nothing wrong with this - watch your postivity rise.

#35 pommyrunner

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:02 PM

View PostSupersam1979, on 04 February 2011 - 06:33 AM, said:

Thanks mate.

I am just a very average hack here, but I like to see others having goals to shoot for and achieving said goals. Both Jack Daniels and Bobby McGee said they would prefer to coach someone with the right attitude (i.e positive and willing to try new things) than someone with heaps of natural talent who is negative.

I am going to ramble abit now, but please indulge me - in any sport, I find ladies far better to coach than men. The reasons for this are simple. If you tell a lady that we need to do 'A, B & C' to get a good result, then she is likely to follow that formula to the letter, as that is the recipe for success. Many men in the west in sport will listen and then say 'Yes but my way is better' (I know this because I did this all through school and college in various sports).Their way often involves their priorities first (getting drunk, chatting up girls, then doing commercials and then abit of training). Kenyans and Japanese don't do it that way round (different mindsets and more respect for the coach etc). In Japan if the coach says run until you drop then they will do it without question (male or female). They don't have the most naturally talented athletes, but are willing to use what the coach says to attain success.

A ramble, but hey that is the mood I am in today. Two books I recommend if you have not read them already is Amby Burfoot's 'The Runners Guide to the meaning of life' and Bobby McGee's 'Magical Running' - both on Amazon and will change your life and running.

Always, always folks give thanks after any run and then self-congratulate yourself for getting out there. There is nothing wrong with this - watch your postivity rise.


So chuffed by all the recent positive comments -its inspiring and it spurs you on. Supersam, where are you based - you sound like you could be my new trainer, ha ha!

I don't want to set unrealistic goals, I think 1 hr 45 min is definitely achievable for me, maybe 1 hr 40 for a push.  I will save sub 90 for next time but I hope I can do it one day and positive thinking is going to help me there as well as hard hard hard training!  Will have a read of those books, some inspiration would be good.  I just can't wait to get out to Aus and have a group to run with for advice and company.  It can be a lonely road out there.  

So on that note I'm going to man up and get outside in the 90 mph winds, 3 degrees celsius and get todays 5 miles in - euugghhh! wish me luck!

Also, while there's some helpful voices around I would love it if anyone could give me tips on the training plan I'm following.  It definitely needs improving!  The "speed work" is longer than I have done before and feel maybe i should be doing some faster, shorter speed work?  Also no mention of fartlek and don't know if I should fit this in anywhere?  Also no tapering at end??  At moment 4 or 5 runs a week is max until I get some more sunlight (march when clocks change probably?) then I could push to 6 if needed.  Thanks in advance

http://www.runnerswo...s#smartcoachtop

Edited by pommyrunner, 04 February 2011 - 11:45 PM.


#36 Supersam1979

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 09:42 AM

View Postpommyrunner, on 04 February 2011 - 11:02 PM, said:

So chuffed by all the recent positive comments -its inspiring and it spurs you on. Supersam, where are you based - you sound like you could be my new trainer, ha ha!


Also, while there's some helpful voices around I would love it if anyone could give me tips on the training plan I'm following.  It definitely needs improving!  The "speed work" is longer than I have done before and feel maybe i should be doing some faster, shorter speed work?  Also no mention of fartlek and don't know if I should fit this in anywhere?  Also no tapering at end??  At moment 4 or 5 runs a week is max until I get some more sunlight (march when clocks change probably?) then I could push to 6 if needed.  Thanks in advance

http://www.runnerswo...s#smartcoachtop

Hi mate,

I am Syderney based - happy to help anyone I can in both racing and training. Amazing to see some of the people that I run with making huge improvements. One girl I know went from 3.25 marathon to 2.50 in 10 months. That is amazing.

Okay so these are my ramblings for the day. I suggest that you also purchase Daniels' Running Formula off Amazon when you buy those other books. Jack Daniels and his VDOT tables have helped me immensely in everything from the 5Km to the 100km races. You really don't need another running manual ever - it allows you to build you own training programs according to your ability - gives pacing for intervals, race pace, tempo pace and easy/long run pace in miles and KMs.Possibly the best training book around. In fact I like Noakes to, but Daniels is more simplistis for my simple mind.Okay enough advertising.

Back to your program:
Your long runs are at 9.10mile/hour - 8.59. This equates to VDOT of 46-47 and thus translates to a finish in the half of between 1.36.30 - 1.38. This is estimate time but as pointed out above is achievable.

Without knowing you or your running pedigree that well, it is hard to say what can help you with your intervals/tempo. You could try the following once a week or once a fortnight to build lactate threshold - 20mins slow warm up, then 20mins at 7.17 - 7.10/mile pace and then 20 min cool down. This is right for the VDOT mentioned above. IF HOWEVER YOU HURT BADLY AFTER ONE OF THESE THEN DON'T DO THEM!!!

6 weeks out I try once a week the following for 2-3 weeks - 6x4x200m at just below 5km pace 4min between sets and 65 secs between reps. This will build speed and can drop cruising speed by up to 20secs on the day (Noakes and Daniels). Good cheat method!

In short the program you are following is sound. However if you are only new to tempo and speed work then best to ease into it and not go ballistic as this can cause all sorts of problems.

Another thing that I believe in ( and all my female mates agree on) is that if you want to get better, you have to just run faster and with better people. I did a 10KM time trial on Thursday and came in last at 39mins. That is fine though as I know I am not getting faster or better by running with slow folks slowly. My girlfriends all run with fast men to improve their times. Once you have this half out the way, you will know more about yourself, your body and what works and what does not work. I might also add that a time trial is not a goal to set PBs every week. it is a guide to how you feel afterwards. Plus if the course is tough as it was on Thurs and it is 32c then PBs are not that easy to come by anyways.

Might I also suggest that after the half you then take some time to drop your 5-KM - 10KM time. Work on getting to very near to or below 40mins in 10KM and then 90 half is a synch. If you beat me over 10Km then you should beat me over every distance up to and including 100km if you train properly.

Check out my blog if you want to read more of the crazy world of SAM and if you want to join the quest to beat obesity.


Rant is now over and I shall return to the Red Road!
Stride for stride on a life changing ride.
SAM

#37 pommyrunner

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 05:30 AM

Thanks so much Sam - awsome advice which I am slowly trying to take in! :im Not Worthy:   Shame you're in Sydney, our base will be Melbourne but we are doing a 6 month tour of Aus before we settle so will be swinging in - have family in the city so will have to locate you for a run!

Firstly what does VDOT stand for?  I get the idea but didn't know the acronym!  Shocked that the 9.10 miles can get me that result time in the half, I have been finding them too slow to be honest but if I can keep that speed easily then increase my mile surely I'm on to a winner?!

As for running with someone faster I am hard pushed where we are at the moment but when we get to Aus things will change.

Read your blog and got some more tips from there too -very inspiring....will get onto buying the book too.  Thanks so much once again!  Junelle

#38 Supersam1979

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 12:43 PM

VDOT is kind of like your VO2 max and an indication of how much oxygen you can use to get from A to B over a certain distance.

If you send me a PM, I am happy to share with you a program for a half marathon that I believe will work for 90mins. Again how do I know - because a few of my friends who were around the 1.40 marker roadtested it and they had great success. But it is not magic and like anything you must do the work.

At present if you were to ask my advice (and I hate giving advice as I am far from perfect and don't know you at all), but buy and read Daniels from cover to cover. It is not a simple 10 pager, but will go a long way to helping you to understand what the body does when we run and how we can make it do that better.

For me the goal of any training session is to improve running economy. For me better economy is far more important than is VO2.

The beauty of Daniels is that it is one of those books that caters for the very basic beginner to people at Olympic level. Jack has coached weekend warriors  like me and at every level to world and olympic champs.

Enough ranting for the day. I am still hot after my run and swim down Manly this morning - how hot are the temps in Sydney these days?

Take care - love those that hate you, bless those that curse you for if you only love that which loves you then what is life?

SAM

Edited by Supersam1979, 06 February 2011 - 01:33 PM.


#39 rohan

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 05:07 AM

View PostCountryMuzz, on 03 February 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

I know I will be called sexist - but you are a bloke Sam. Your 88 minutes is a female equivalent of about 97. If you look at the stats, the ladies run about 10% slower then the men
Womens times possibly shouldn't be that much slower than mens.  Mens Marathon record is 2;04. Women's is 2;15. (multiply x 1.088 )
So to maintain a similar percentage gap an 88 min male half will be 95;45.

However you're right that amateur women are a bigger percentage slower than their male counterparts than elite women are.

#40 Tongey

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 08:27 AM

Pommyrunner,

Keep up the good work running round and around Stronsay or Eigg or wherever you are! Having lived in Scotland for 6 years I know it can be hard to keep motivated to keep running in deep dark winter.

A few years ago a friend told me he had entered a 1/2 marathon in 4 weeks time. He hadn't done any training. I said, "You can't run a 1/2 marathon on 4 weeks training", and then I promptly signed up too. I hadn't run for a year and a half, did 4 training runs each longer than the last and then did the 1/2 in just under 1:30. It hurt, but that kick-started my motivation to keep running and I haven't stopped since.

Good luck with the training and try to find a few 10k races or something to aim for before trying a 1/2.

#41 Supersam1979

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 08:58 AM

Finally some more positivity.

Stories abound and anything is possible if you believe enough and have the drive.

A family friend was goaded into running Comrades in the late 90s. He was a couch potato, abit portly, with no running background. He took the challenge (admist much laughing of family and friends). He got up off the couch and entered a ran a local marathon on the day in 4 hours. He then ran one 21KM race, one 10KM race and 10KM per week of training in the 16 weeks to the race. His total mileage was 244KM including the races - he had no business even being in the race and should by all accounts have been carried off the course....

He finished in 9 hours 20 ish for the 90KM and thus beat 75% of the total field - many with much faster marathon times than him.

My favourite though is about a young girl who was always round about 42-43 for the 10Km and although her early splits said she could go under she never could crack it. We hid her watch though before a race and paired her up with a buddy to just go and run at his pace - end result 39.45. She could do it you see but the because she had it in her head that 42 was all she could do, when she got ahead of time on her watched she slowed to make sure she came in on that time.

Anything is possible friends if we stay positive and can see it in our heads- if the mind has been there many times then the body will surely follow.

#42 UnfitnessFanatic

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:20 AM

Yeah i'm agreeing with the positivity, I think it helps to let your goal be known and have people urging you on to completing it.

My goal at the start of last year was to break 50min for 10k, in my final run I had a revised goal of sub 40min which i missed by 17sec.  

I was dissapointed but when looking back at how far I had come through the year it far exceeded where even I thought was possible.  It helped being involved with a great bunch of people who were so inspriational not only with the support and encouragement but also with the comradre in training every week.

Good luck with your goal, I have set myself the same one of sub 90min half.

#43 HillsAths1

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 11:01 AM

Last year I had a goal to break 40 minutes at the GC 10km, I missed the target by 20 seconds, so was not too happy.

I ran the half marathon the next day and managed to run at my pre race estimate pace of 93 minutes for the first half of the race, I felt really good at half way (felt a little slow for first few kms)and started to pick up pace a little.

I ended up doing the last 10km in just under 41 minutes and finished in 1.28.52, it was a huge surprise for me as I was not expecting the time. I had done almost no runs over 11km, however what I did have going for me was that I ran pretty much 5 and 6 days a week and averaged 50kms a week. In addition I ran the club road and cross country races every Saturday leading up to the races.

Consistent training is what got me through.

Pommy keep up the training and everything else will fall into place.

#44 Supersam1979

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 11:38 AM

View PostHillsAths1, on 09 February 2011 - 11:01 AM, said:

Last year I had a goal to break 40 minutes at the GC 10km, I missed the target by 20 seconds, so was not too happy.

I ran the half marathon the next day and managed to run at my pre race estimate pace of 93 minutes for the first half of the race, I felt really good at half way (felt a little slow for first few kms)and started to pick up pace a little.

I ended up doing the last 10km in just under 41 minutes and finished in 1.28.52, it was a huge surprise for me as I was not expecting the time. I had done almost no runs over 11km, however what I did have going for me was that I ran pretty much 5 and 6 days a week and averaged 50kms a week. In addition I ran the club road and cross country races every Saturday leading up to the races.

Consistent training is what got me through.

Pommy keep up the training and everything else will fall into place.

Well done. That time sets you up nicely for a crack at a low 3 marathon.

Running hard is  almost certainly the key to the sub 90. I would go so far to say that 5 days is ampl in the week. Rest properly on the rest days and hammer the heck out of those time trials and tempo runs when you run them. 5x1KM at 5KM pace to with easy warmup and cool down is another good one.

Well done again!

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 12:02 PM

Thanks but there is a very low chance that I will be doing a Marathon in the near future. I do not see the need to run that far when there are so many other runs that I can do, without the pain and suffering involved in doing a Marathon.

#46 Supersam1979

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 01:06 PM

View PostHillsAths1, on 09 February 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

Thanks but there is a very low chance that I will be doing a Marathon in the near future. I do not see the need to run that far when there are so many other runs that I can do, without the pain and suffering involved in doing a Marathon.

A fair point and one that I shared until a few years ago.

I guess though one person's pain and suffering is another's salvation. Plus if you train accordingly (and for a marathon I seldom get over 70KM)then there is no pain and suffering.

#47 Bellthorpe

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 01:43 PM

Huh? There's pain and suffering in every race!

#48 DontStop

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 12:36 PM

Yeah. I thought pain and suffering was the point.

Just on that, my big breakthrough (mentally) as a young runner was learning to differentiate:

effort
discomfort
pain

When you start out, you tend to associate discomfort with pain. But they're two different things I think. Most races tend to follow that progression: effort for the first part, discomfort for the middle bit, and pain near the end.

Once I learnt that effort and discomfort aren't actually pain, I could put up with more. I think this is something that gung-ho personal trainers don't understand: always crapping on about hurting and pain and burning. Far better to get to know it, get intimate with your discomfort, and start to learn from it... rather than build it up as an enemy.

Sorry. WAY off thread.

I like pommyrunner's attitude, and sam's and others too. No-one really knows what they're capable of, so it's better to go into things with a massive work ethic, and a wonderful ignorance of the limits others will happily impose upon you.

#49 aDrain

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 01:22 PM

View PostHillsAths1, on 09 February 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

Thanks but there is a very low chance that I will be doing a Marathon in the near future. I do not see the need to run that far when there are so many other runs that I can do, without the pain and suffering involved in doing a Marathon.

Funny, that's why I do marathon but haven't done an half. All the training, pain, and getting up early and all the punters hear is "half". Just no glory in an half ;)

#50 Quinkin

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 01:32 PM

Good luck, happy for you if you can get sub 1:30. On 3-4 or 4-5 days a week, on the mileage you are proposing I still say 1:40-1:45 is more likely. Glad to be proven wrong, and happy for you to use my assessment to fire you up.

I hope to be running running in the same race, and aiming for a similar or better time. I train 6-7 times a week between 70-80km/per week. It took me 2 years, and four Half Marathon attempts and a build up to about 80km (50 miles) per week before I ran 88:13 at age 47. I ran 39:17 and 39:31 10km times on the way to that time.

I'm all for positivety, but where do you draw the line bewtween that and realism? If I was in my early thirties I'd been aiming for mid to low seventies.