307 replies to this topic

[Whippet Man]

I have been fascinated by these bizarre looking shoes ever since I saw Karl Meltzer wearing them at Hardrock. Karl has won more 100s than any other other ultra runner so you kind of take notice of what he is wearing. Then when Diana Finkel led the field outright for 80 miles last year at HR and only just got pipped into second place also wearing Hokas I decided there must be something in them. They are not yet available here in Oz but I was given a pair at the Health and Fitness Expo on the weekend in Sydney by the guys at Reflexsports with a view to trying them out and reviewing them for the aussie audience in the new online magazine TrailRunner Mag Aus/NZ (Trailrunnermag), soon to start publication.

So full and frank disclosure: these shoes were given to me. But rest assured my review will be equally full and frank. And with the the barefoot revolution taking off these shoes are heading in completely the opposite direction. Add to that Spud in my ear as he follows Kuprikas trend to shave as much weight and whittle his shoes down as close to barefoot as possible and I am really keen to see how these babies shape up. I took them out for their first test ride today and I have to say: wow! I don't mind winding it up a bit on the odd downhill but these beasts simply fly. I could not believe the ride. They do take a bit of getting used to and I have a couple of issues with the fitting but I now know why they are rapidly gaining popularity in the US with those shirking the trend and looking for max cushion instead of minimal. I plan to really put them to the sword and feedback on how I find them but so far they have my attention!

[Spud]

Karl does bang on about these shoes, but he did smash himself up at the Zane Gray 50 last year stumbling whilst wearing them.
What do they weigh, can you midfoot strike in them, do they drain well and more importantly how often do you roll your ankle in these shoes.
I have read reports of complete detachment from the trail and therefore delayed reaction to awkward footing etc?
Look forward to your unbiased review Whippet.

Also tell us about the Merrell trail gloves, now there's a shoe at the other end of the runnning shoe spectrum.

[negsplit]

I have been interested in these shoes for a while as well, and am now seriously considering them. I have tried them on recently and think they may be appropriate for hard packed trail/road ultras but not so great for technical single trail. The road shoe they make would not have the grip required on a trail, but the trail version seems very very rigid. Combine this with the height of the shoe and I agree with others that proprioception could be compromised too much.
When it comes to minimising muscle damage from long road ultras I think these definitely may have their place.
I will do a long run (50k)soon at a set intensity in my normal road shoes, then re-do the run when fresh about two weeks later in the Hokas and report back on any perceived differences.
Looking forward to the report in TrailRunner Mag.

[Whippet Man]

negsplit, on 19 April 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

I have tried them on recently and think they may be appropriate for hard packed trail/road ultras but not so great for technical single trail.

I actually commented to mrs whippet tonight while running that I think the road version would be ideal for long road ultras. In fact I went so far as to say that if I ever did C2K again this is the shoe I would wear. I am getting ahead of myself: I have to put a lot more miles into them first.

Quote

Also tell us about the Merrell trail gloves, now there's a shoe at the other end of the runnning shoe spectrum.

And yes, I also picked up a pair of these to test drive but I will discuss them over on the barefoot related threads and similarly review in more detail in the mag. Talk about apples and oranges, you could hardly get 2 more different shoes.

[buzzlightyear]

Whippet, re: pricing.
Where do we fall under? Is Hoka under the same price bracket as Newton or even the over-priced ASICS?
With so much discussion re: local vs Overseas(online) pricing, where does the shoe stand?

Even if its a great shoe, with no support (of local purchase) it will soon cause more strain on the Aus Distributor than delight

[Beaver]

I know Terry wears these shoes, he loves them, and he can now go on all the rides at Luna Park.

[LongDistancePictures]

From the Hoka One One site, in their "Technology" section:

By using an EVA 30% softer and increasing its total volume to 2.5 times  that of a typical trail running shoe, we allow for more cushioning than  any other shoe on the market today, dissipating up to 80% of the shock associated  with heal striking when running.

Could be I'm spending too much time marking essays at the moment, but it's disturbing that a shoe manufacturer can't spell "heel". It reduces my confidence, rightly or wrongly, in everything else they do. And it winds me up.

Look forward to your reviews Andy - you're a great writer and I trust your judgment.

Cheers
Sue

[russell2pi]

An other victim of ova rely ants on spall Czech, eye wrecking.

[Jimmy4990]

I laughed when a guy wanted me to try a pair of these on at The Fitness Expo. Anyway when I finally put them on I did'nt want to take them off so I purchased them. Initially I felt a few strains & was thinking maybe not enough support. Gradually built up a few k's & they now feel like they suit me. Raced in them today & WOW. I am in new territory now. They are really good going downhill. At one stage I was at 2.48 pace & my quads survived no worries at all. New PB with Average Pace 3.37. I am excited about giving them a run over 21.1 next Sunday.

[Jimmy4990]

Spud, on 19 April 2011 - 08:08 AM, said:

Karl does bang on about these shoes, but he did smash himself up at the Zane Gray 50 last year stumbling whilst wearing them.
What do they weigh, can you midfoot strike in them, do they drain well and more importantly how often do you roll your ankle in these shoes.
I have read reports of complete detachment from the trail and therefore delayed reaction to awkward footing etc?
Look forward to your unbiased review Whippet.

Also tell us about the Merrell trail gloves, now there's a shoe at the other end of the runnning shoe spectrum.

They are really light, my size 12 are about 340gr's (Bondi-Road Shoe) I think. I strike the midfoot, they turnover beautiful & I can bring in my heel without smashing my quads when going downhill. I was worried about stability, today I did heaps of high speed dodging, weaving & kerb jumping & my confidence was never tested. They look unstable & plenty of people "gork" at them but I don't mind. I raced 8k's today, cant wait for next weeks SMH Half. My wife wonders about the legality of me being 2cm taller. I wont be asking any questions... lol .

Edited by Jimmy4990, 08 May 2011 - 06:56 PM.

[Whippet Man]

Yeah I have expected they will be great on the road.
Re the stability: I was surprised how stable they were. Because you sit quite low within the deep footbed the surrounding EVA works to support your foot. They actually have only 4mm of heel to toe drop so suit the mid-forefoot strike. I was also surprised how responsive and nimble they could be. Definitely not ideally suited to tight technical trail but as soon as the path opens up so does the pace. And the downhill performance is unbelievable. I have submitted my full review to the Trail Runner Aus/NZ editor and it was much longer than requested. But given the quirkiness of these puppies he has consented to run the full version.

[Jimmy4990]

Whippet Man, on 08 May 2011 - 11:01 PM, said:

Yeah I have expected they will be great on the road.
Re the stability: I was surprised how stable they were. Because you sit quite low within the deep footbed the surrounding EVA works to support your foot. They actually have only 4mm of heel to toe drop so suit the mid-forefoot strike. I was also surprised how responsive and nimble they could be. Definitely not ideally suited to tight technical trail but as soon as the path opens up so does the pace. And the downhill performance is unbelievable. I have submitted my full review to the Trail Runner Aus/NZ editor and it was much longer than requested. But given the quirkiness of these puppies he has consented to run the full version.

The 4mm heel to toe drop was something that was explained to me. I was wearing my NB Minimus when I purchased my Hoka's (quite the contrast) & the guy explained that even though they are worlds apart they are actually quite similar. Raced in my Minimus last week. Could'nt walk after the race. Gastroc & Achilles needed 4 days. Raced in Hoka's yesterday and my Tarsals are a little sore but apart from that I am fine. Speed was definatly much easier for me in "the stilts". I don't think I will stop training in my support shoes but my Hoka's are, for the time being, my new "racing flats"   .

[yochris77]

I am not having any luck getting to HOO's www.  Is it just me?  Can someone confirm the correct www?

Thx,
C

[Jimmy4990]

yochris77, on 09 May 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

I am not having any luck getting to HOO's www.  Is it just me?  Can someone confirm the correct www?

Thx,
C

google will get you there. The Australian distributor is in Mittagong & an American dude called SpeedGoat Karl is sponsored by them. You are right, the link seems to be down but this should get you there. If not today, maybe tomorrow . http://karlmeltzer.com/gear-reviews/

[Jimmy4990]

I am still positive about these shoes as I have a new HM PB & have pulled up just fine. As my legs started to fatigue tight cornering felt awkward. Anyone wanting to stride out & run really fast downhill might want to give these a go.

Edited by Jimmy4990, 16 June 2011 - 08:48 PM.

[Mylandra]

Hoping for some advice re these very noticeable shoes - I've worn out my mizuno cabrakans, and am looking for a shoe suitable for the GH100mile race. I'm 6'4 and 93kg, so I need a plush ride! I'm a midfoot striker and love to let loose on downhills. I gather that Glasshouse course is not overly technical, and reading Whippets review, he says they would not be suited to technical trail - so it is sounding positive. Can anyone tell me more?

Reason for edit: Just realised they don't do bigger than US12.5 and I'm a US14! Oh well. They emailed me to say they may do bigger sizes in 2012/2013. Looks like I'm stuck with 'normal' shoes!

Edited by Mylandra, 21 June 2011 - 09:41 PM.

[Jimmy4990]

My Verdict. These shoes are no gimmick. I run in many shoes as I beleive that to be an effective way of preventing over-use injury. These shoes are great when I am looking to do back to back hard sessions. Recovery from long runs is quicker. They are my perfect racing shoe for rolling terrain provided not to many sharp turns. Right angles & u turns are difficult for me in these. They are faster than they feel which takes a little getting used to but let me assure you, it's a good thing. As mentioned previously these shoes are awesome striding out on the downhills. I  am planning adding trails to my running & I will definatly try the trail version. Just incase you are interested in pronounciation. Hoka One One pronounced Hocker Ooo-neigh Ooo-neigh

[Dirty]

Disclosure: I've also been given a pair of Hoka One One Bondi B's to try and I've sent the review to their Aussie distro to do with what he likes. I'll be putting it up on my blog soon enough and will link to it from here when I do, if that's all okay re CR policy etc. It's definitely nice to not pay for a shoe but I'd say based on how these have been I'll be paying for a pair in the future (at the best price I can possibly get, as always).

Hoka Australia are contactable here through Twitter @HokaAU and I think there's a link to their website there. Now that people are actually getting on-the-ground feedback some Sydney stores have got them on the shelves despite their being funny-looking. There's a bit to get used to and I haven't tried the trail version, but the road is really something unexpected. Haven't tested it as thoroughly as Negsplit but on the back of a 10km p.b. that hurt everywhere except my legs (still slow but going the right way) and a 70km packed trail run that was confusing because it still left me moody for 3 days, just that my quads and hips weren't sore, thumbs up. Montrail Rogue Racers & Brooks Racer ST 5s are still in the training mix, but I'm thinking everything from half-marathon and up for me with these now. Anything long enough to really go looking for a groove or hard enough to fatigue through impact.
From crewing C2K and feeling that it's a shoe that's quite happy rolling up a hill as rolling down it, I'd 2nd Whippet's (I think it was you, Whippet) thought that they're a race and a shoe that'd get along pretty well.
Trying the Bondi, you probably need to size a half up. Apparently not so the Mafate (trail version). I'm going to start writing annoying emails to Hoka in France and US asking when size US13+ Mafate and US13 1/2+ Bondi's are going to happen. Hobbits have to get in line for now, basically.

[Dirty]

Just posted that review
Hoka review at http://runeatsleeprun.wordpress.com
if it's not against policy to share information in the forums.

[Dirty]

Mylandra

Quote

Just realised they don't do bigger than US12.5 and I'm a US14! Oh well. They emailed me to say they may do bigger sizes in 2012/2013. Looks like I'm stuck with 'normal' shoes!

That's majorly annoying. I too am a Sasquatch and was counting on Hokas getting bigger sooner. Emailing them's probably the best thing you can do. The more they're convinced there's a market at the big end of Foot Town the sooner that'll hopefully happen. The Bondi B's go up to US13 but because they size small they fit like a 12.5. You can milk almost an extra half-size out of them but you'd need an extra 1.5 and that's sandal country.   : (

Edited by Dirty, 17 July 2011 - 11:19 AM.

[Whippet Man]

Dirty, on 14 July 2011 - 12:59 AM, said:

From crewing C2K and feeling that it's a shoe that's quite happy rolling up a hill as rolling down it, I'd 2nd Whippet's (I think it was you, Whippet) thought that they're a race and a shoe that'd get along pretty well.

Yep I definitely think the Hokas were made for a race like C2K. I haven't tried the Bondi Bs but I know Karl Meltzer prefers them so I am still keen to try them out. I have a fit compatibility issue with my Mafates which may not be an issue in the Bondis. And I notice Diana Finkel won Hardrock in Hokas again the other week. Seems they are well suited to big climbs as well as big descents. Not sure if she wore the Mafates or Bondi Bs.

Also just realised haven't linked the review that prompted this thread originally (although I have posted the link elsewhere). The Trail Run Mag Aus/NZ first edition is available for free download here.

Edited by Whippet Man, 19 July 2011 - 06:57 AM.

[buzzlightyear]

Thanks to Dirty, I tried on the Road version on Sunday and ran for a brief period (and I mean REALLY brief),

Because of the structure of the shoe, there is a strong promotion fore foot strike (and also more forward lean) - I too noticed there is a lot more "bounce" inbetween strides, thus allowing me to extend the stride length. It sure feels nice for the Road version to be used on Road, though I will remain a skeptic of the road version on Trail (though Karl Meltzer will beg to defer)

The Hoka feels like one of those gears where you can just pick up and 'Go' with minimal adjustment period.
I am hoping to pick up a pair and give them a nice go, hopefully before M7 next week. Will the "don't try new gear in a race" mistake be evident in the short 42km run? Watch this space..


And yup - It would be an awesome C2K shoe! And it's in a C2K colour combo too!!

[Whippet Man]

buzzlightyear, on 19 July 2011 - 11:11 AM, said:

It sure feels nice for the Road version to be used on Road, though I will remain a skeptic of the road version on Trail (though Karl Meltzer will beg to defer)

Hey Buzz great that you had a 'run' in them. Re the road version on the trail, I think they get away with it because of the incredible surface area. This provides greater traction than you would expect. And the deep midsole soaks up any imperfections improving grip and protecting the foot from stone bruises. Quite the opposite to the minimalists but as you pointed out they still work well for mid-forefoot striking. I still doubt the suitability on technical trail but others seem to have no problem with that so perhaps I just need to give that some time. Unlike you at the M7! Hope you get some Bondi Bs and have a blast.

[seris]

Buzz, thanks again to Dirty for the tip....
I may lose my crew if I didn't give these a bash.......
I will test mine out at M7 after running in trail shoes for the Canberra Bush marathon the day before. Let's compare notes then

[iangallagher16]

where does one get a pair of these shoes from?

im a US 13 - any point even looking yet?

[Neo]

Seris you got a pair already!!! I love it!
I am definitely getting a pair of these shoes. After wearing Roger's for 2 mins last weekend I am so curious to give them a go.

Where did you get yours? Northside Runners?

Good luck for the Canberra/M7 double.

Rob

[seris]

Neo, on 20 July 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

Seris you got a pair already!!! I love it!
I am definitely getting a pair of these shoes. After wearing Roger's for 2 mins last weekend I am so curious to give them a go.

Where did you get yours? Northside Runners?

Good luck for the Canberra/M7 double.

Rob

Should have seen me at work today in scrubs and Hokas... got a few comments but they know what I'm about  
I also couldn't imagine putting up with Roger 200kms into C2K if I didn't give these a good go  
Luke at Northside Runners. He's a champ, deserves all the support from us we can give him. Will defs wear them at M7....... no matter how slow.

[Beaver]

Initial thoughts on the shoe from Ultra168 full time gear reviewer Hoka One One Bondi B

[buzzlightyear]

Beaver, on 19 August 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

Initial thoughts on the shoe from Ultra168 full time gear reviewer Hoka One One Bondi B

This review makes me wanna go out and buy a pair!!!!


WAIT< I Already have one!!

Thanks 168!

[Dirty]

There's talk of an instore at NorthSide soon to take a running group out to see firsthand what these are about. Thinking a Thursday evening would be good?

[negsplit]

My preference would be for any night except tues or thurs....... It would be great to get those of us who wear the shoe already and those interested in it together for an honest Q&A.

[seris]

don't like my mafates

[negsplit]

Too rigid? I wasn't a huge fan of the mafate, but the new combo xt has solved all problems. Good trail grip and a lot more flexible like the Bondi....... Go on...... get all 3 styles.........you know you want to.

[seris]

The mafate seems to ride too high around the inside of my ankle. No issue here with the Bondi B.

[Ponkey]

Ran a training run PB this morning in my Bondi B's! MUst be the shoes, can't sees that training with members of Ultra168 is getting me any fitter  

[BennyC]

I got a pair of Bondi B's yesterday, they feel pretty good walking around and am looking forward to taking them out for a run.

[arrtgrrl]

i love my bondi bs!!

[Whippet Man]

seris, on 24 August 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

The mafate seems to ride too high around the inside of my ankle. No issue here with the Bondi B.

I definitely need to try a pair of the Bondis on. I had similar issues with the Mafates. I have just updated my review on them here www.trailrunningcompany.com

[cappy]

Nice review whippet man. Look forward to your Bondi Bs review as I too have wider flatter feet than the norm

[Whippet Man]

cappy, on 27 August 2011 - 05:02 AM, said:

Nice review whippet man. Look forward to your Bondi Bs review as I too have wider flatter feet than the norm

Reflex Sports who distribute in Australia and provided me with the Mafates to test and review for Trail Run Mag Aus/NZ reckons the Combo XT will be better suited to my feet. They are a bit wider in the toebox. So I will probably skip the Bondis and go straight for the Combos. Arrive in Oz in about 3 weeks apparently.

[Spud]

Hoka fans will enjoy this clip.

[Sarge]

Spud, on 30 August 2011 - 06:18 PM, said:

Hoka fans will enjoy this clip.

Is that Paul Every after a haircut ???

[Ponkey]

Sarge, on 30 August 2011 - 07:03 PM, said:

Is that Paul Every after a haircut ???

Why are they using small children ?

[Spud]

they look awkward running in them too

Edited by Spud, 30 August 2011 - 07:40 PM.

[Ponkey]

Spud, on 30 August 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

they look awkward running in them too

I must admit Spud, I use them on the road all the time and you basically can smash the downhills and not even think about it. As for the trail, well that is a different matter. The Basin on GNW is fast claiming victims each week who dare go in there in Hokas, and is such earning a reputation as "Having a Hoka Shocka!" I will say impartially that I am looking forward to their Trail version as more grip is definitely needed on the more technical trail.

Back to the video, exploiting children is banned in most countries !  

[BennyC]

I'm thinking of using them for the Glasshouse 100m. Not sure if I should start in them or have them as a back up in one of my CP bags.

[djbleakman]

Hippie does hill repeats in clown shoes... awesome...

[EverReadyBunny]

Don't be so sure it is a child.

Terry has been wearing these for a while.

[Ponkey]

BennyC, on 31 August 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

I'm thinking of using them for the Glasshouse 100m. Not sure if I should start in them or have them as a back up in one of my CP bags.

I am sure Dirty or Buzz would advise caution if the conditions are very wet and muddy !

[buzzlightyear]

The Hoka One One (Bondi) was first introduced to me by the smiling Ninja (TerryC) Other than the old joke that it elevated him to be on eye level with Orimbah, the shoe according to him, assisted him with his style of running and improved his running times

A Year later  and about 6 weeks ago, by chance, I was fortunate to test drive them , though a mere minute or two. It was one of those " instant Connection" with a shoe.  I am not a one-shoe-man like Beaver  (I have Adidas for marathons, Asics Kaino for training,DS for speed work,  Newton for halfs, and a 2year old Salomon for trail) However I instantly felt I was running in a better posture. That motivated me to spend  (quite a few ) bucks on this new shoe. Contacted Mick from Northside Runners (crows nest)  Netted a discount and off I went.

My running time on my Tues hills training with team Ultra168 began to drop. Time for the 10km of hills dropped from averages of 48minutes to a PB of 46.52mins. My half marathon PBs dropped like hot potato too.

So what has changed? Was the transition my ok? (is it REALLY the shoe?)

Yes and no.

The nature of the shoe (and it's structure) almost promote a rather prominent forward lean. Almost similar to Newton shoes, it meant I was fore foot striking lots more (contrary to the believe the chunky Mr Ronald Macdonald Style Sole increases Heal Strike)

My first run with the Hoka (bondi) was a planned 30km run @ ave 4.50mins K. The run ended in only 25km with a mild strain on my Psoas muscle. That tightness lead to my L4/L5 freezing up. It went into a little lock mode and made the run rather uncomfortable. I attribute it to the additional amount of "bounce" and the higher unconscious kick (trailing leg) that leg to my back muscle contracting more than it should. I have to admit I do see Chiropractor every 6 weeks for general "service" of my posture and skeletal adjustments. I stopped twice to stretch my back and hammies. While I thought I would stop using the shoe, after my Chiro adjusted my back in a visit, I did not regret going back once more.


I put on the shoe and resumed training - Then, No problem on my physical body since.

The shoe is great for road. Bar none the best road shoe for (up-hill/ down-hill ) road running. It just feel SO right! All the Chi technique just naturally applied it self. It was almost the shoe is doing all the thinking for you!! My training time gone down and so did last week end's Mount Wilson to Bilpin race time. I had a 4mins plus PB , finishing in a respectable 2.51.19hrs (I know, I am more than 30minutes behind the winner!!)
So, Hoka (Bondi) shoe? Great for road,  unsealed road and open fire trail. But what about technical stuff??

This leads me to highlight the almost "fatal" weekend I had while training for the Great North Walk miler race. Prior to that training run 2 weekends ago, I ran from CP5 (Somersby) to CP4( Yarramalong) and back in them. The weather was beautiful, the ground was soft, and the shoe? They were great. Thinking they would be the shoe of choice for the 176km outing, i took them out another training run - This time from Basin (CP3) towards Cp2.  

MISTAKE!!

Ponkey, on 31 August 2011 - 02:18 PM, said:

I am sure Dirty or Buzz would advise caution if the conditions are very wet and muddy !

That section was laden with mud, wet ferns and algae. It would have made the venue for the MuddyToughBloke  Challenge look amature! I was sliding and slipping EVERY step. There were absolutely no grib. No "telons" to stick the shoe for me to glide like (Anna) Frosty over SixFoot Track

As if 61minutes for the first 5km wasnt bad enough, the poor grip on the shoe resulted in two bad falls with one knocking my knee to a bad case of inflammation and the other on my head.

Yes, it was my poor choice of shoe for the training run. It was like V8 engine racing Mount Panorama on a June rainy day on slick tyres. BAD! Immediately after the run, the Hoka made to the top of my sh1t list that weekend (other than getting lost, having to 'swim' a creek I didn't need to and a undesirable way to end a training run ; Injury)

I am NOT confident Hoka Bondi will allow the runner be confident of footing for technical and slippery trails. I wouldn't use it for GNW or sections that involves wet bush land or mud. However, it would certainly be my "true Blood" should I front up for Coast to Kosci again. I say it's a must have for those attempting a Road ultra! IT's great. If its anything else, I would hesitate

So instead of Hoka One One as "time to fly", I say it's a shoe " for the sensible one..."


See ultra168's review on Hoka here
Looking forward to test drive the trail version! Dirty? Where are you!!!??? It could be good for Six Foot track!!

Edited by buzzlightyear, 01 September 2011 - 08:29 AM.