208 replies to this topic

[Lindyk]

It is possible to have sport for children & adults that caters to all levels & separating kids early into athletes/non athletes or worse participants/non participants is not looking at the long term for individual or sport. If sport is now too “reward all” (& I admit I do have teaching colleagues that follow this approach) the past was too elitist. I know lots of adults that have discovered sport late in life after avoiding it because of being humiliated during school sport as kids.
I support events being as open as possible but as a walker I contacted the RD & complied with their decision even if I disagreed.

In six wks I officially finish my career as a teacher + sports organiser (damn cut offs are everywhere!). I loved getting kids involved in sport & probably learnt more than they did including the following:
* I agree on comments re awards. Awards have to be meaningful, you can have awards for excellence & awards for effort & improvement but kids aren’t stupid – they know when an award is not earned.
* Being a champion early doesn’t mean a lot. The skinny little kid not making the final might actually have the most potential.You don’t boast about walking at 9 months because nobody values it except your mum.
* Reading & writing skills are taught in reading & writing lessons. Sports skills should be taught in PE lessons. People of all ages can improve their physical skills with direct instruction.
• Sport is brilliant for teaching life skills but along with the positives of persistence, determination & reward for effort should be the harsher ones: disappointment, frustration & loss. Adults shouldn’t over protect kids but after a tough experience we should be putting them back on their feet; not knocking them down again.
• Sport should (& it is) mandatory in schools but the backyard sessions of cricket, kicking a footy, being chased by mum/dad, riding a bike are the best start to being a fit & athletic adult.
• Parents/teachers should set an example. I hate seeing overweight, unfit adults on the sideline yelling at kids to try harder.
• Don’t just criticise the coaches/refs/organisers become involved yourself.
• You are not reliving your sporting life. Don’t try & finish unfinished dreams through your child.
• Kids who are pushed too hard give up as soon as they are old enough to assert themselves. There is plenty of time to be a serious athlete but childhood is short. Let them enjoy it.
• Allow mistakes not excuses. (Applies to all ages)
• Better to be a champion person than a champion athlete. Being good at sport doesn’t give you a free pass to be rude, intolerant or uncaring.
      
& Ayla the interesting thing about running is the same emotions apply at all levels, there will be elite runners from GC that will have the same frustrations with their performance as you.

& The winner of a race one year can become the struggler at the end in an instant of misadventure.
Don't be arrogant in your ability & don't take it for granted.

Lindy

[slowmo]

Thanks for that wonderful post Lindy. I know this is straying away from the original topic somewhat (apologies Ayla) but your comments ring very true to me, both in terms of my own experience but especially as a parent. I'm printing your post out to save.

There have been a lot of great posts on this thread. Regardless of whether you agree or not with any particular one, most were thoughtful and offered in a good spirit. SteveTF's post about having been at both the pointy and the blunt end of the field, and how that compares was really interesting.

Ayla, as you running continues all of your training and race experiences become worthwhile - even the ones that are the pits at the time.  Like most folk here my own running mishaps include DNFs, painful or disappointing runs, getting lost (my particular speciality), injuries, dehydration dramas...  They all eventually morph into being a good lesson, or at least a good story

slowmo

[Colin]

slowmo, on 07 July 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

SteveTF's post about having been at both the pointy and the blunt end of the field, and how that compares was really interesting.

I know Steve wanted to empathise, but I am sure he was at the blunt end by design not default...he was a 30min 10km, 2:30 marathoner, surely he was just having some conversation back there

[bones]

Ayla2010, on 06 July 2011 - 06:08 PM, said:

Yes I know I am fat and slow but everyOne has to start somewhere don't they? Or should people like me just stay home and not try?

Alya, well done on your first half and don't let your time worry you. You are doing the most important thing - exercising and improving your health. This time next year, you'll not only be faster but healthier and you'll love the new you and the confidence that gives you. Good for you. Don't worry about what anyone else says, just do your best. And to be honest, running is a gorgeous community filled with many wonderful people.
As a true mid-packer with a phenomenally fast husband, I've found that the really talented runners are mostly incredibly supportive - I forget the number of times guys who run sub 1:20 half marathons as a training run have taken the time to ask after my meager efforts, send me messages of support or generally just make me feel good about myself. The best people don't care what pace other people run at - they applaud your effort.
Best of luck with your next run Alya.

[BLUEBOY]

what a great post Lindyk, as an athlete ,little aths coach and parent a lot of what you have said rings true,

i like to encrourage kids and adults of all abilities  to participate in this wonderful world of running.

[iRonnie]

Tiger Boy and others.
I have dug out the various IAAF rules for you guys and girls to consider.  

Quote

SECTION III - TRACK EVENTS
Track Conduct
163.6. An athlete, after voluntarily leaving the track, shall not be allowed to
continue in the race.
…
SECTION VIII - ROAD RACES
Race Conduct
240.9. In Road Races, an athlete may leave the road or track with the
permission and under the supervision of an official, provided that by
going off course he does not lessen the distance to be covered.
10. If the Referee is satisfied on the report of a Judge or Umpire or
otherwise that an athlete has left the marked course thereby
shortening the distance to be covered, he shall be disqualified.
…

The rule below may be relevant (explain) for some runs where the roads have to be reopened  to traffic.

Quote

Safety and Medical
7. (a) Organising Committees of Road Races shall ensure the safety of
athletes and officials. In competitions held under Rules 1.1(a),
(B ), © and (f), the Organising Committee shall ensure that the
roads used for the competition are closed to motorised traffic in
all directions.
…

Quote

SECTION IX - CROSS-COUNTRY RACES
Race Conduct
9. If the Referee is satisfied on the report of a Judge or Umpire or
otherwise that an athlete has left the marked course thereby
shortening the distance to be covered, he shall be disqualified.

These infringements can be appealed.  For instance:  last year Michael Rimmer was reinstated after appealing his disqualification under Rule 163.6.
http://runningtimes....ArticleID=20345

TigerBoy:  Cheers mate.  The thing is, I voluntarily left the track and thus the referee had no choice but to DQ me.  According to the rules, even though I gained no advantage I should have been removed from the track.   There is a difference between Stadium and Road in this respect.   The other thing is how many clubbies know the rules?   They see DQ and think something  naughty was done (from my experience).  So  quoting an IAAF rule still leaves doubt.  I agree that DQ with the reason stated (e.g.did not complete course in cut-off time) would be better than a just stating DQ .  Even then technically it could be argued (see Colin’s  post) that that is incorrect.
I  don’t think the over-three hour 21.1 k folk broke any IAAF  rules.  It is a different issue – that was my point.  I broke IAAF  rules and still don’t like having a DQ beside my name  as I clearly wasn’t cheating.  I was sooking.  In relation to the GCM the organisers did have a cut off time advertised.  I don’t think failure to make that time warrants a DQ.   I still like the fairer idea of Finished Over Cut-Off Time (F.O.C.O.T).   The runner (Ayla) did finish;  she did complete the whole distance;  she ran too slowly to make  under the cut-off time (not exactly the crime of the century).  F.O.C.O.T.  fits the criteria of  being firm with folk who don’t reach the time limit; and encouraging runners  to come back and  take on the   barrier that is giving them a hard time.  If you think about it, we all have our goals, whether a three hour marathoner; a 2:30 guy  or a truly elite runner  looking to smash the 2 hour barrier for the marathon .  A 2:20 marathoner  (a hack in his own eyes) with many years’ experience once pointed out that it is all relevant.  The 2:03 men could very well say the 2:30 guys are plodders and so on.

Edited by iRonnie, 07 July 2011 - 07:25 PM.

[Supersam1979]

You are a man of much knowledge iRonnie. I was hoping to PM for some advice, but it seems you can't receive PMs.

There has to be some ground rules in any sporting contest and even the best of the best will have a bad day and find themselves perhaps at the back of the pack with hackers like me. I agree that the term DQ is not warranted since this lady broke no rules- it is not her fault that the organisers let her continue even though she may not make the cutoff. I am sorry I am not making alot of sense (it must be this $2 a day diet)..

What is worse though having someone physically pull you out of the event like at Comrades or allow you to finish and then have something like DQ next to your name??? I don't know.. Before I finish my ramble, I leave you with this.. I remember reading about a lady in the UK who came from virtual nowhere into the marathon squad for the 2004 Olympics, then there was perhaps the greatest story I have heard and that was about a young runner at Comrades not so long ago who finished his first Comrades as the last man to cross the line and then the next year blew it to pieces and came 9th for a gold. Don't be discouraged stick to you guns and you can prosper.!!

[razorsgirl23]

blair, on 07 July 2011 - 09:25 AM, said:

Not sure what rude and arrogant comments you refer to but I don't recall ever seeing any of these posts reported by you so how am I supposed to know about them. I have a life - I can't read everything.

As for the rest of your post I'm not sure I understand your point. I am merely providing some constructive criticism. Ayla can either take it for what it is and hopefully it helps or she can ignore it and blame everyone else for her problems.



Well excuse me I'm sure for not reading every single word that appears on the page. My mistake. I won't attempt to help anyone ever again.

If you think comments like that are constructive criticism or helpful, you're delusional. What you said was disgraceful.

[Colin]

iRonnie, on 07 July 2011 - 07:20 PM, said:

Quote

SECTION VIII - ROAD RACES
Race Conduct
240.9. In Road Races, an athlete may leave the road or track with the
permission and under the supervision of an official, provided that by
going off course he does not lessen the distance to be covered.
10. If the Referee is satisfied on the report of a Judge or Umpire or
otherwise that an athlete has left the marked course thereby
shortening the distance to be covered, he shall be disqualified.

Yes...so clearly the DQ pertains to someone who claims to finish but has cut the course a la Rosie Ruiz

Finishing the entire distance or being asked to stop at a cut off point is a DNF

[mgi11a]

Colin, on 07 July 2011 - 05:05 PM, said:

I know Steve wanted to empathise, but I am sure he was at the blunt end by design not default...he was a 30min 10km, 2:30 marathoner, surely he was just having some conversation back there

No he's got old and slow, hell even on a good day I can beat him.

[Tiger Boy]

Totally agree that DQ is inappropriate, but from what I understand of the rules as outlined by the RD (or others making the rules for this event), it seems as though they worded it something along the lines of "finish within (insert cut off time for which event you were in) to avoid disqualification".
This is why I think that DQ is the correct result - under the rules published as i understand them to have been (although i am just relying on the wording of previous posts here).
While the organisers obviously have the rightot make their own rules, and decide on handing out a DQ, I believe this was a bad rule.
The appropriateness or otherwise of that result is the crux of the matter, and I think what probably caused the thread to start with.
I wasn't there on the day, but I believe there is some sort of exit survey being sent out to those that ran on the day. Perhaps if enough people ask for the DQ to be replaced with a DNF or better still "DNF within cut off" the rules may be amended.
I believe that the 3 hour cut off was a net time, not chip time, as there was a 10min tolerance for people to cross the starting mats. This means that somebody went back afterwards and amended all those that finished between 3.00 and 3.10. Not sure I see the point of that. Surely the volunteers had better things to do? And the only thing it could possibly achieve was to upset some back of the packers by putting DQ against their names.  If it had been my decision to make, I would have allowed all finishers that finished under 3.10 to be counted (as the clock was obviously still running), or made a 2.50 cut off with 10 minutes to cross the line and shut down the clock at 3 hours.

[Wedgetail]

There has been lots of comment as to whether it should be a DQ or DNF.  I have already stated a personal view in favour of DNF but if you go back and look at what the GCM policy on cut off times that formed the contract each runner agreed to on entry, is says clearly:

"All participants must finish within cut off times to avoid disqualification."

It could have said not allowed to finish but it didn't.  

The IAAF rules are in addition to this, not instead of or over-riding this condition.  

It may not be ideal and GCM organizers may change it for next year but with that policy in place before the event I don't see that the RD or Referee would have any choice but to disqualify.

I feel sorry for those who are effected.  They should still be congratulated for doing the distance.  

Ultimately, they signed a contract with conditions.  If the conditions were of benefit to them, they would be very upset if GCM Changed conditions after the race.  In this case the conditions are not as favourable.  Why should GCM be expected to change these but not any others?

Put it down as experience and as a heads up for all of us to start reading the fine print for anything when we pay money, even a run.

[Ayla2010]

I knew there was a cut off but I didn't read about being dq but it didn't matter as I thought I'd make it, which I've already said.

[StillGettinThere]

My heart really went out to my young daughter on Sunday night when we saw her DQ. She had just finished her first half and this was such a cruel blow.
But you know, this was only a momentary hic-up because within about 30sec she was excitedly talking about the things she was going to do to make it "right" for her next time.
All the best for everyone else's next time.

[THE KEG]

I wouldn't spend any more time worrying. You finished the race and and you know you did it.Thats all that matters.Wonderful effort. In a few years time the official results disappear anyway in most cases.Just focus on your next half.
As for myself I will run my first half in a few years At Mudgee .The marathon and half start together so I  won't be keeping marshalls up with a torch.Might even have a training run for it.Will check out the wineries of course.Will probably come last but will be trying my best not to..

[iRonnie]

Tiger Boy, on 07 July 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:

Totally agree that DQ is inappropriate, but from what I understand of the rules as outlined by the RD (or others making the rules for this event), it seems as though they worded it something along the lines of "finish within (insert cut off time for which event you were in) to avoid disqualification".
This is why I think that DQ is the correct result - under the rules published as i understand them to have been (although i am just relying on the wording of previous posts here).
While the organisers obviously have the rightot make their own rules, and decide on handing out a DQ, I believe this was a bad rule.
The appropriateness or otherwise of that result is the crux of the matter, and I think what probably caused the thread to start with.
I wasn't there on the day, but I believe there is some sort of exit survey being sent out to those that ran on the day. Perhaps if enough people ask for the DQ to be replaced with a DNF or better still "DNF within cut off" the rules may be amended.
I believe that the 3 hour cut off was a net time, not chip time, as there was a 10min tolerance for people to cross the starting mats. This means that somebody went back afterwards and amended all those that finished between 3.00 and 3.10. Not sure I see the point of that. Surely the volunteers had better things to do? And the only thing it could possibly achieve was to upset some back of the packers by putting DQ against their names.  If it had been my decision to make, I would have allowed all finishers that finished under 3.10 to be counted (as the clock was obviously still running), or made a 2.50 cut off with 10 minutes to cross the line and shut down the clock at 3 hours.

I wasn't aware of that organisers wording of the rule: "All participants must finish within cut off times to avoid disqualification."

I agree - rules is rules.  However, I also agree that giving finishers outside the cut off time a DQ is not the best way and a more gracious term could be used in future.

The other way is to not let entrants who don't make the time limit finish and insist they leave the course like they do at Comrades and SixFoot.  Then the runner is simply given a DNF. Life can be tough, but overcoming a challenge can make it much sweeter.  For determined folk, a DNF is a great motivator to set things right.

Having said that, it seems that the course was left open, contestants were not ordered to leave the course so why not record all finishers?  There is merit in both sides of the argument.

Line in the sand, I would say - considering the volunteers; the kind of course; that the rules warned that those outside the cut-off time would receive a DQ, etc. - three hours is a fair cut-off time and in future organiser would be better to insist runners outside that time leave the course. I think it only leads to confusion to allow runners to finish and then DQ them.  If runners are allowed to finish, it should be recorded as such, for instance, finished outside allowable time.

Ayla what do you want? What solution do think is fair?

But, more importantly, have good think about THE KEG's sage advice:

Quote

I wouldn't spend any more time worrying. You finished the race and and you know you did it.Thats all that matters.Wonderful effort. In a few years time the official results disappear anyway in most cases.Just focus on your next half.

  

I had the shits until a young fella said: "You got a DQ - cool.  Now you're a real bad arse. Better than some lame time no one really gives a shit about."

[Katk]

Excuse my ignorance but I am new to running (11 months) and just did the half in 1.43.  I know I have a lot to learn but what are the monthly races that I keep hearing about and where are they.  I live in Toowoomba and so far have only ran with my Garmin! Would be nice to have a companion at times and to do some regular races.
Thanks

[Android]

Android, on 07 July 2011 - 01:07 PM, said:

The term "DQ" is a sticking point for me aswell so if it's any comfort to you Ayla2010 I'll proudly stand by you as a fellow DQ'r knowing that I also did the best I could (admittedly my DQ is for a very different reason, my timing chip is sitting somewhere in the gutter between the 35km and 40km timing mats !).

iRonnie, on 08 July 2011 - 09:28 AM, said:

But, more importantly, have good think about THE KEG's sage advice:

I had the shits until a young fella said: "You got a DQ - cool.  Now you're a real bad arse. Better than some lame time no one really gives a shit about."

Given that I'm a fellow DQ'r (see my post above), I'll happily stand alongside Ayla as a fellow bad arse !    

[HillsAths1]

Katk, on 08 July 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

Excuse my ignorance but I am new to running (11 months) and just did the half in 1.43.  I know I have a lot to learn but what are the monthly races that I keep hearing about and where are they.  I live in Toowoomba and so far have only ran with my Garmin! Would be nice to have a companion at times and to do some regular races.
Thanks

Check the CR calendar or else contact your local running club, I am sure there are a few in Toowoomba, you could always consider doing some of the Brisbane Road Runners or Intraining events.

Plenty out there, well done on your first up time.

[Colin]

Tiger Boy, on 07 July 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:

Totally agree that DQ is inappropriate, but from what I understand of the rules as outlined by the RD (or others making the rules for this event), it seems as though they worded it something along the lines of "finish within (insert cut off time for which event you were in) to avoid disqualification".

Thanks for this Tiger Boy, sorry my previous response to you was in terms of "what it should be", we agree on that.

This particular race rule smacks of either arrogance or ignorance (perhaps both) by the RD who obviously hasn't much real world experience. "If you can't finish my race you are disqualified...but if you don't start I am happy to keep your cash"

In terms of logistics if they tried to get HM runners out of way before marathon winner (say 9:10 am) then yes, advertise that you have to be over line before then or "leave the course", but the mats don't get switched 'off' for HM and then 'on' for marathon...it just keeps recording whatever chip comes over and the software knows which is one or other...so it seems a bit stupid and childish to go back over the results and delete people who have already got a recorded finish.

Android, on 08 July 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

Given that I'm a fellow DQ'r (see my post above), I'll happily stand alongside Ayla as a fellow bad arse !    

Hey Android, haven't they sorted that out yet?

BTW send me a PM on the person with the 30min neg split if you are willing to share. I have a feeling it might be a serial offender.

[iRonnie]

Katk, on 08 July 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

Excuse my ignorance but I am new to running (11 months) and just did the half in 1.43.  I know I have a lot to learn but what are the monthly races that I keep hearing about and where are they.  I live in Toowoomba and so far have only ran with my Garmin! Would be nice to have a companion at times and to do some regular races.Thanks

Try these KatK.
http://www.trr.org.au/
http://brisbaneroadrunners.org/
http://www.mastersathletics.com.au/
https://www.clubsonl...ts=872011361156

http://www.intraining.com.au/

Android, on 08 July 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

Given that I'm a fellow DQ'r (see my post above), I'll happily stand alongside Ayla as a fellow bad arse !    

Cool!  

Just to clarify, I was DQ at a different race in Brissy.

Sorry to hear you lost your timing chip.  I can relate. I lost mine in the Bridge to Brisbane (when it was 12k).  I had won my age group and the staff were ignorant and bloody-well rude. Too hard to correct as it would throw all teh other results out.  They refused point blank to discuss it or accomadate me in any way. All they did was threaten me with a huge bill if I didn't return teh chip. I sent and email requesting the race referee reconsider. I had the photo and everything to show the time and that I completed the course. No reply.  

Contrast that to Noosa when Dusty Lewis was still around.  I was walking on the side of the road trying to find my chip.  (Okay, I hear you all thinking that I need to learn how to tie a knot.  The thing is I used a short piece of old shoe lace because tying the chip to the top of my shoe annoyed me.) I told him how I had lost my chip. He said not to worry about it; that they were only worth a few dollars anyway and they had a back up for the leading runners.  He suggestd I go and let the recorders know so they could check my time and numbers etc.  Arrrrh....the good old days.

Edited by iRonnie, 08 July 2011 - 12:13 PM.

[Android]

Colin, on 08 July 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

Hey Android, haven't they sorted that out yet?

BTW send me a PM on the person with the 30min neg split if you are willing to share. I have a feeling it might be a serial offender.

I sent a facebook follow up query yesterday and received a "thanks for your patience, well respond to your query as soon as possible" so hopefully it won't be too much longer.

Funnily enough the 30min neg split person had their time over the finish line removed from their splits a couple of hours after my "sour grapes" post and has now joined the DQ list(coincidence I suspect).

[1409th]

Colin, on 08 July 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

In terms of logistics if they tried to get HM runners out of way before marathon winner (say 9:10 am) then yes, advertise that you have to be over line before then or "leave the course",

Say a handful of half marathoners over 3 hours and a handful under of marathoner 2.30 are the people affected.

It's a pretty wide open road if there is only those few sharing it.

And do they really think the crowds won't pick between the faster and slower runners - probably both groups of people deserve the cheers?

In the Canberra marathon the faster runners always catch the slower ones on a double loop course and there never seems to be any crashes / merge issues. The people that go sailing past me never seem to mind our sharing the space and probably benefit from the claps and support of the slower runners (well at least I feel good about offering the support!).

If the sub 3 hour rule is only about getting half runners off the course before the elite marathoners come through but they remain on course anyway, what's the practical purpose of the rule?

Agree with Ronnie with a more liberal twist "F - bnwtct-neroaeftmwa"  

FINISHED (but not within the cutoff time - no elite runners or anyone else for that matter was affected)

1409th

[Blue Dog]

Lindyk, on 06 July 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:

& Blue Dog people who haven't got the co-ordination for running probably aren't crash hot at quilting either! When you've had a fairly charmed passage through life it's easy to laugh at others' struggles & let's be fair there's more Poodle than Blue Dog in your credentials as an Aussie battler. Blue heelers bite tougher targets than the disabled, old & slow.

Lindy

It's amazing that although we've never met, yet you seem to know all about my life. Please expand on your 'fairly charmed passage through life' assumption, I'm really interested.

& don't ever start a sentence or paragraph with '&'. You, a teacher - give yourself an uppercut.  

[Android]

Colin, on 08 July 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

BTW send me a PM on the person with the 30min neg split if you are willing to share. I have a feeling it might be a serial offender.

Having trouble sending you a PM. It's saying you cannot receive ?

[Lindyk]

Blue Dog, on 08 July 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

It's amazing that although we've never met, yet you seem to know all about my life. Please expand on your 'fairly charmed passage through life' assumption, I'm really interested.

& don't ever start a sentence or paragraph with '&'. You, a teacher - give yourself an uppercut.  

I'm 6 wks from ex teacher so I'm giving myself permission to take liberties with the English language.

We share some background experiences & friends   so I do know who I am talking about & I stand by the "fairly charmed passage through life". Actually most of us on CR do have life pretty easy or we wouldn't have the luxury of obsessing over running.

I love your race reports but as someone who is now experiencing what it feels like to have no co-ordination, be slow & look & act differently to the norm + having worked with a lot of disabled or just unconfident people I find it hard to laugh at the "exploding time chip" attitude. Clever but hurtful. I'm happy to acknowledge your right to your opinion & I would concede that most on CR find it amusing but as one of the slow & unco-ordinated I am not retiring to the library or taking up quilting any time soon!  

Lindy  

[djbleakman]

This thread is like The Terminator... you think it's just about dead, you've fired the cr@p out of it, and it lies there seemingly battered and bruised, beyond revival.

But just like The Terminator, it rises from the dead. No matter how hard you shoot at it, it just won't die... it keeps coming back at you again and again. It's relentless, it sucks the life out of you. There's no hope in the world any longer, this thread is destined to become our Skynet... I'm off to eat some chocolate cake...

[razorsgirl23]

Careful. You might get fat and get DQ in your next race...

[djbleakman]

I'm already fat and DNF races

[Fire Horse]

Lindyk, on 07 July 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

Don't be arrogant in your ability & don't take it for granted.

Lindy

Well said.  I echo your sentiments re- ability and disability.  I participated in a Dept of Sport & Rec Disability Inclusion workshop a few years ago, when I was coaching and involved in Little Aths hands-on.  A great experience, with an emphasis on finding ways to include people in sports where the "rules" are keeping them on the sidelines eg. start height in high jump for an age group, hurdle heights, time taken to complete an event.  To the horror of some very competitive (and perhaps unintentionally pro-exclusion) parents, we modified our events for our athletes with special needs.  We allowed a boy to run with the age group below, that matched his developmental stage better, and found that the other kids had no issue with it - they cheered loud and long for him, since it was obvious to them that he struggled, but was having a great time participating with them, and they with him.

PS.  I'm also impressed that you haven't chosen to trump Blue Dog with your marathon PB, that I think may well be faster than his.  Not that you would ever say it yourself.  As my mum would always remind us as kids, don't boast about your ability - there's always someone faster.

[iRonnie]

BlueDog: I gave myself an uppercut and it gave me a headache for seven weeks.  You don't know what you are talking about mate. Gee it hurt. & that is fact.  This is why I am dead set against your idea for Exploding Timing Chips. Lame idea!  One Lame on CR is plenty enough. Own up BlueDog: You are really Lame aren't you?  

LindyK is quite capable of addressing your queries, however, I ask you to consider whether or not our lives are a bit more charmed than those who battle everyday with seriously disabling, seemingly irreversible conditions.

LindyK, please don't take this the wrong way, but if BlueDog treated you as if you were "special" wouldn't that make you feel diminished as  a person? Isn't other’s urge towards protectiveness ultimately condescending? I think BlueDog instintively knows this. Maybe he even has formed that idea somehow. He is no idiot. Haven't you learned from those keen on cut off  how the world looks through the eyes of others -like BlueDog? What BlueDog suggests in relation to the three-hour cut off is just  his opinion -one of many.  Your opinion is just as valid.

The mods could shut Dog down but he isn't teasing or trying to demean you. He was speaking generally, he was playing - after all he is The Dog. Sit him in front of a TV with other dogs on it and he will start yapping on and on.   Leave the front gate open and he’ll be off running somewhere.  I raced motocross many years ago.  I trained on a property.  I would have to get the keys from an old lady who owned the place and a  bluey cattle dog.  The first time I went up the front stairs the dog bit me on the heel through the stairway gaps.  The usual remedy out  bush for such behaviour is a kick in the head.  Not in my nature:  so the  next time I wore my MX boots and he yelped when he bit into the rock hard material of my boots. The bluey snapped away but to no effect.

Yes. The way BlueDog has joked about it could be offensive but,  if he is denied his right to be joking about the three- hour limit or commenting on it, doesn’t that  also deny you your rights as a listener to get other perspectives?  Indeed, doesn’t it give you the opportunity to engage others with your concerns and experience?

I am not advocating open slather on people who are sensitive; personal attacks or bullying, especially against those who can't defend themselves; or an antagonist carrying on teasing or with some behaviour when you let him or her know it is upsetting you :  I am just saying that sometimes - even though our experiences shape our responses - sometimes looking at life through filters to protect ourselves will limit and dull our life experience rather than expand our perspective and enrich our being.

I don’t know.  Just some food for thought.  Probably junk food.  It’s a difficult one.

Same goes for you BlueDog. Some people see your behaviour as that of a yappy poodle. Commenting on a minor grammar error to try and make someone feel foolish to avert attention from your own nonsense is not the best way to deal with someone pointing out how your words are affecting them and expresssng their concerns about things.

Neither of you two are mean people -this I do know.

Cheers,

Ronnie.

Edited by iRonnie, 08 July 2011 - 04:54 PM.

[RunningChick]

As a teacher I am just going to point out that you can, in fact, start sentences with 'And'.  Not often, but you can!!  Sorry that's been bugging me for a while.

[TropicThunder]

djbleakman, on 08 July 2011 - 03:54 PM, said:

I'm already fat and have DNF'd races

DJB - Corrected your post in colour

Yeah, but you've learned what you put in you get out - can't see any more DNF's on the horizon, when you have a goal there is no self doubt, no negative thoughts (in some people one negative thought can over power over ten positives). The big boy puts in 110% to make it a reality.

The wider CR community could / should take a leaf out of your book - if they did, this post would not exist and you'd have your wish.

RunningChick, on 08 July 2011 - 05:13 PM, said:

As a teacher I am just going to point out that you can, in fact, start sentences with 'And'.  Not often, but you can!!  Sorry that's been bugging me for a while.

Cool - the thread of all threads has just taken another twist  

[BOD]

TropicThunder, on 08 July 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

Quote

"As a teacher I am just going to point out that you can, in fact, start sentences with 'And'. Not often, but you can!! Sorry that's been bugging me for a while."

Cool - the thread of all threads has just taken another twist  

Or, as Monty Python would have it, "And now for something completely different."

[djbleakman]

TropicThunder, on 08 July 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

DJB - Corrected your post in colour

Yeah, but you've learned what you put in you get out - can't see any more DNF's on the horizon, when you have a goal there is no self doubt, no negative thoughts (in some people one negative thought can over power over ten positives). The big boy puts in 110% to make it a reality.

The wider CR community could / should take a leaf out of your book - if they did, this post would not exist and you'd have your wish.



Cool - the thread of all threads has just taken another twist  

Awww shucks TT... can we have a group hug and some man love?

[halfwaydown]

djbleakman, on 08 July 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

Awww shucks TT... can we have a group hug and some man love?

I think I'm gonna throw-up!....OOOPS, damn. Sorry wrong thread.  :

[djbleakman]

halfwaydown, on 08 July 2011 - 05:58 PM, said:

I think I'm gonna throw-up!....OOOPS, damn. Sorry wrong thread.  :

Yeah speak to Brick about that one

[TropicThunder]

halfwaydown, on 08 July 2011 - 05:58 PM, said:

I think I'm gonna throw-up!....OOOPS, damn. Sorry wrong thread.  :

Sorry this thread required some Luurrrvvve   it has had a very hard week

[djbleakman]

TropicThunder, on 08 July 2011 - 06:05 PM, said:

Sorry this thread required some Luurrrvvve   it has had a very hard week

I love you too... Man...

[halfwaydown]

TropicThunder, on 08 July 2011 - 06:05 PM, said:

Sorry this thread required some Luurrrvvve   it has had a very hard week

As long as it keeps the Grand Slam D'ultrathon Plebiscite thread off the front page, we'll all be slightly more awake.  

[Blue Dog]

iRonnie, on 08 July 2011 - 04:27 PM, said:

BlueDog: I gave myself an uppercut and it gave me a headache for seven weeks.............. Commenting on a minor grammar error to try and make someone feel foolish to avert attention from your own nonsense is not the best way to deal with someone pointing out how your words are affecting them and expresssng their concerns about things.

Neither of you two are mean people -this I do know.

Cheers,

Ronnie.

Ronnie - Blah blah blah. You're a recalcitrant. You haven't learned a thing, or have even be prepared to contemplate your mode of thinking in years. I won't bother to enter an endless and meaningless battle of words with a pedant like yourself. Your stamina for this type of mindless argument is only matched by your running ability. Your previous avatar, of which you were so proud, but have now dumped since exposed, says it all. You want to see everyone screwed.

& please, stop stirring up The Coven to support your thinly veiled hatred of me. You are atypical of the direction in which this nation is heading: repression of free speech by the overwhelmingly bombastic.

Cheers, Blue Dog.

[Davo]

Didn't you guys ever read the Bible?
Remember when Moses came down off the mountain with the ten commandments, the first thing he said was "Actually there were eleven commandments, but one fell and broke."
And when the children of Israel said "What did it say?", he replied "It said: Thou shalt not take thyself too seriously."

[john stevens]

Blue Dog, on 08 July 2011 - 08:56 PM, said:

You are atypical of the direction in which this nation is heading: repression of free speech by the overwhelmingly bombastic.

Cheers, Blue Dog.

Are you sure this is what you meant to say?  Otherwise it's a very nice compliment, which I'm sure iRonnie will accept.

Anyway I still love your writing and find much to smile at in your posts.  Everyone's got their issues, that they will champion - Lindy's and mine coincide regarding the issue of inclusion.  I will defend the right of every person to take part in something, no matter how good or bad they might be in their execution.  Doesn't mean I don't laugh at the picture you paint of people quilting; but doesn't mean I won't stab you with my quilting pins when I run past you, if I ever think you're serious.  

Edit:  Who's been logged on to my computer...meh, no matter

Edited by john stevens, 08 July 2011 - 09:16 PM.

[Ponytail]

john stevens, on 08 July 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Are you sure this is what you meant to say?  Otherwise it's a very nice compliment, which I'm sure iRonnie will accept.

Anyway I still love your writing and find much to smile at in your posts.  Everyone's got their issues, that they will champion - Lindy's and mine coincide regarding the issue of inclusion.  I will defend the right of every person to take part in something, no matter how good or bad they might be in their execution.  Doesn't mean I don't laugh at the picture you paint of people quilting; but doesn't mean I won't stab you with my quilting pins when I run past you, if I ever think you're serious.  

Edit:  Who's been logged on to my computer...meh, no matter

I don't know Bluedog and have no idea if he's a good guy or a bad (judging by the posts on here, the jury may still be out) but I am with John Stevens on this.  I love a good laugh and BlueDog's "quilting, exploding time chip" post was gold and, for me, refreshing.  

Why do we all need to take everything to heart?  Life if full of disappointments - I've known people who have talked coaches around to picking their little "Timmy" for the xxx team because poor little "Timmy" couldn't deal with the disappointment of not being picked.

As a mother of four (albeit able bodied, able minded) children, I think one of the best lessons I can teach them is nothing comes easily.  There will be disappointments along the way and they should be used to inspire us to work even harder to achieve what we want next time.  I think disappointments are what mould us and help us to toughen up as individuals.

I am tired of this precious PC society where we try to shield our little darlings from everything hard in life.  A DQ for not finishing under 3 hours, in the whole scheme of things, is a mere stumble which can easily be overcome.

[axltk421]

Back to being disqualified - my wife (who can run a 10km well) was running with a friend at the GCM and trying to get her round under cut-off time. Despite her best efforts, they crossed the line at 1.33.20

When they went through the finish chute after receiving their medals, they were told by the helpers that unfortunately they had run out of finishers T-Shirts; however they were recording names and numbers and would forward a shirt. Then, another of the Team came up and said that they had found some more shirts and my wife met me with shirt and medal (and a personal worst time for the 10k).

This morning, the wife received another finishers shirt through the post - so she was disqualified, didn't record a time and ended up with two shirts and a medal - so there are some benefits!

[Colin]

Gee Doggie...maaaate,

I thought Ronnie was defending your right to free speech.

iRonnie, on 08 July 2011 - 04:27 PM, said:

Yes. The way BlueDog has joked about it could be offensive but,  if he is denied his right to be joking about the three- hour limit or commenting on it, doesn’t that  also deny you your rights as a listener to get other perspectives?  Indeed, doesn’t it give you the opportunity to engage others with your concerns and experience?

Imagine if he didn't.

But free speech doesn't mean no one can criticise those things you said. Perhaps more of your mates should be critical rather than blow smoke up your ****
IMO the 'lameness' post treated slow runners unfairly, even if under the guise of humour and to bring the 'exploding chip' into this context of the OP's complaint was below the belt.

Last year I commented that 4hrs wasn't an enviable time for experienced marathoners but perhaps for newbies. One would have thought that most people aspire to be better than median in life.
I also commented that 3:3x wasn't an exceptional time for a fit professional trainer who happens to be a natural runner-given the slowing of the median time.
No criticism of BOP'ers whom I respect so much.

Yet people got their nose out of joint that I was elitist and ironically one who took the most exception is one who regards that post of yours as a fine piece of work.

I guess it depends who says what around here.

If you think speech is free, it is actually free for everyone including the OP.

cheers...maaaate

[Lindyk]

ponytail, on 08 July 2011 - 10:06 PM, said:

Why do we all need to take everything to heart?  Life if full of disappointments - I've known people who have talked coaches around to picking their little "Timmy" for the xxx team because poor little "Timmy" couldn't deal with the disappointment of not being picked.

As a mother of four (albeit able bodied, able minded) children, I think one of the best lessons I can teach them is nothing comes easily.  There will be disappointments along the way and they should be used to inspire us to work even harder to achieve what we want next time.  I think disappointments are what mould us and help us to toughen up as individuals.

I am tired of this precious PC society where we try to shield our little darlings from everything hard in life.

Ponytail I don't know you as a person but from your posts I gather you're a pretty feisty sort of character. I wonder if you would be so accepting if your kids weren't allowed to participate because someone decided they were hopeless at sport so let's shove them off to the library? Or if one of your kids was disabled & given a hard time & you took the matter to the bully's parent & the parent said your kid "should've been drowned at birth" & when you objected to that statement responded they were only joking & to lighten up. I have a feeling that you the bully, & the bully's father might have an enlightening conversation & I doubt you'd being saying they were funny.

The same with yourself Blue Dog if you were in my situation I really doubt you'd retire to the library or comply with those who believe people with problems should hide away. I bet you would object to being told there are "5k events for people like you" - I don't want to walk 5K there's no challenge in that! Nor do I want the disabled abseiling course that looked like one of the downhills into the National Park - I could do it without the harness, or the falls prevention course with the cheerleader instructor "Pass the ball around your body" "Now we are going to stand up & then sit down again" & "Let's all march around the room with big smiles on our faces" No let's pretend we're grownups & march out the door & go to the pub instead.

I doubt you'd put up with your friends being mimicked & called "spastic" or "retard" & maybe you would be braver than me & face the world without your medication & jerk & shake without caring what you looked like. It's funny that people say I'm brave for doing things like trailwalker but actually I'm not brave at all. I hate facing the pity or ridicule that my unmasked PD friends attract & avoid going out in public if I'm not prepared. But maybe you guys would be braver than me - it would be easier if you knew there were a few extra supportive people out there.

Lindy

[slowmc]

Wow,

I posted on this thread earlier this week and have just caught up with the rest of the posts which have touched on a whole gamut of issues and running philosophies. Its been fascinating.

I will say this. I love running and been able to get out and go for a run when  time permits. I have made some great friends out of the sport.And I am just grateful that I can still do it. Running has given me so much as well.Sure I have goals, sometimes I make them, sometimes I don't. But at the end of the day,I remain grateful that there's always tomorrow and that I live in a time and place where its an activity that I can do in relative safety.Enough philosophising for now.Oh dear, where did that word come from this early on a Saturday morning.   

Anyway, thanks to all the guys and girls who have contributed to this discussion. It's been a worthwhile exercise.

Regards

slowmc

[maryclaire]

Colin, on 08 July 2011 - 11:33 PM, said:

If you think speech is free, it is actually free for everyone including the OP.

as the old saying goes ... it's only worth what you pay for it

[runhard]

I think I got the jist of the DQ and DNF after reading this thread. However there was a lot to read.

Ayla cant be put down as a DNF as she did Finish. whether above the time or not they allowed her to finish. that means the only option for them to put down is DQ. Anyway I was just thinking.


RH

PS: This is the best thread!!!!  I havent laughed so hard for so long!! Some of the posts are outstanding.