Jump to content


Do You Have Acupuncture?Needling for leg injuries/soreness


  • You cannot reply to this topic
32 replies to this topic

#1 Morley

    1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,708 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 05
  • Location:Keilor, Vic

Posted 11 December 2011 - 06:53 PM

I was wondering if other runners have had acupuncture for injuries or soreness and what results you have had? I have recently had two sessions and will be having a third this Wednesday. I have been having a series of injuries and suffered general leg sorness for a considerable time. Professiosnal and self massge wasn't doing the job. I have had two sessions a fortnight apart. I felt so much better after the first session. I have had a few needles in specific areas but this is the first time I have had general needling all over the legs. There was about 50 needles on both occassions. The improvement was very good following the first session and good after the second. I'm booked in for the 3rd this Wednesday as I feel I'm not quite there yet. What's other runner's experience with acupuncture? Cheers.

Edited by Morley, 11 December 2011 - 06:55 PM.


Support our Australian advertisers:

#2 chariotlegs

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 109 posts
  • Joined: 29-May 10
  • Sex:Female
  • Location:Perth, WA

Posted 11 December 2011 - 07:18 PM

I used accupunture a few months ago after suffering with plantar fasciitis. I tried everything and was so frustrated that I wasn't getting any better. The physio suggested acupunture and ultrasound which I had for 3 sessions. About 8-10 needles in my left calf each time and the result was amazing. Soooo much better. I didn't realise how tight my calf was prior to this and was suprised how quickly it worked. The area felt like someone had corked the muscle after the first session for about 24 hours, but that was the only side effect I experienced and I have been able to slowly increase the km's again. I'd highly recommend it..

#3 Rico

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 763 posts
  • Joined: 15-November 08
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Canberra

Posted 11 December 2011 - 07:21 PM

I once copped a surprise dry needling in my ITB and didn't enjoy it and didn't see any benefit.

#4 walshy2

    1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,181 posts
  • Joined: 02-June 07
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Sydney

Posted 11 December 2011 - 07:24 PM

I had dry needling in the early stages of High Hamstring Tendonopathy.

I still have the condition 18 months later, despite trying lots of different things, so didnt work for me, although was considering giving it another go but on a more regular basis

Edited by walshy2, 11 December 2011 - 07:24 PM.


#5 halfwaydown

    1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,059 posts
  • Joined: 28-April 11
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Sydney

Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:20 AM

Yes, it has worked for me in the past several times and I would use it again.
Accupuncture using a combination of needles, cupping and electrical needle point massage.

#6 NeillS

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Joined: 04-May 10
  • Location:North Melbourne

Posted 12 December 2011 - 12:03 PM

It sounds like a lot of you have had dry needling, which is quite different to chinese acupuncture. Dry needling has an excellent evidence base and is widely used by sports medicine practitioners, physios and myotherapists. I use it a lot and it is fantastic at releasing trigger points and muscle spasm. It needs to be applied carefully and thoughtfully for it to work well.

Edited by NeillS, 12 December 2011 - 12:03 PM.


#7 Flash11

    CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Joined: 26-December 05
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:12 PM

About the only non- surgerial method I haven't tried. Any Idea with it can work on chronic groin and abdominal issues?

#8 NeillS

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Joined: 04-May 10
  • Location:North Melbourne

Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:59 PM

It is most useful for old chronic injuries, when those injuries are either muscular or influenced by chronic muscular tightness/trigger point formation..... which is almost all of the time. I've used it to completely relieve trigger point formations which are over 20 years old - such as those found in the levator scap or trapezius in chronic neck pain patients. It takes a few goes when the problem is 20 years old, but it is heavy treatment and if you can put up with the pain, it works!

#9 RunnerGal

    Newbie

  • Forum Member
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Joined: 03-November 11
  • Sex:Female
  • Location:Northern Beaches

Posted 12 December 2011 - 03:47 PM

I had accupuncture on my right calf which I had a grade 2 strain on, I had this on my third week of injury and found the results to be positive.  I felt the tightness had been relieved and my muscle even felt relaxed.  I had  messaging before this and in the forth week I had returned to slow running on alternate days and fifth week I was able to run consecutive days which a pretty quick turnaround considering the pain and bruising I had from when the injury occured.

I do think there are benefits, I would recommend and would do it again.

#10 Morley

    1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,708 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 05
  • Location:Keilor, Vic

Posted 12 December 2011 - 05:52 PM

I'm sorry about the heading acupunture. The physio did refer to it as dry needling. I have felt so much better after each session. I was surprised at the number of needles. It is interesting reading the experience of others. Cheers.

#11 loubee

    1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,792 posts
  • Joined: 19-June 07
  • Sex:Female
  • Location:Goldfields, Vic

Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:01 PM

I have very tight ITB and occassionally calves so the physio uses dry needling when needed. I have most recently had a rolled ankle and he needled the calf to keep it from tightening too much. I use it in the lead up to all marathons, I find massage and foam rolling isn't enough to get right in without extreme pain so loosen off with the dry needling then a light massage. I will be going in tomorrow for needling as I am running an Ultra on sunday, my PF is not great so will be attacking the calves as well.

My physio doesn't use it for everything though, some spots work better than other, hamstring tendinopathy being one of those awfully tricky injuries to heal.

#12 Morley

    1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,708 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 05
  • Location:Keilor, Vic

Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:02 PM

I have been a regular user of the foam roller and spikey ball since 2007 but I wasn't getting the usual good results recently and so tried the dry needling. 3rd session is tomorow night. I did an easy 7K tonight and the legs didn't feel too bad. I have health insurance extras and the sessions only cost $19.10 Cheers.

#13 B+

    1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,063 posts
  • Joined: 18-October 04
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Penrith

Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:10 AM

View PostFlash11, on 12 December 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:

About the only non- surgerial method I haven't tried. Any Idea with it can work on chronic groin and abdominal issues?

I have had dry needling by my physio along with other treatment to repair a a torn adductor and subsequent groin and abdominal strains. it has worked well for me and the road to repair has gone smoothly.
In my experience I have noticed that the 24-48hrs after the needling the treated areas feel a bit out of sorts and I have either not trained at all or only trained lightly, but after that full training has continued.
I would also say make sure your injury is fully diagnosed as treatment other than needling may well have to be used to help with full recovery.

Train safe

#14 Morley

    1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,708 posts
  • Joined: 27-August 05
  • Location:Keilor, Vic

Posted 15 December 2011 - 06:59 PM

I had my third session yesterday. I mainly had it in the right leg as the left felt very good. Just a few in the left calf. The previous two occassions I had 2 days off running but I did an easy 5K tonight and the legs feel so much better. The physio was happy with my stretching routine but set me a couple of different ones to do as well. Cheers.

#15 joggingvee

    CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts
  • Joined: 14-January 11
  • Sex:Female
  • Location:Sydney, Northern Beaches

Posted 18 December 2011 - 01:44 PM

I've had acupuncture for shin splints and tight calves. Fantastic. Definately recommend it. Sped up my recovery enormously.
With my first appt I limped into the office and walked out normally.  Had a few appts and very worthwhile.

#16 SeeDanRun

    CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 93 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 11
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Brisbane

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:16 PM

I had Japanese acupuncture (I don't how that compares to other types) on a problem tight calf at my coach's request. Had I done a bit of research beforehand I never would have spent the money or the time. I actually ended up fractionally tighter due to the fact I was lying on my stomach motionless for an hour each session while needles were superficially inserted into my skin. Couldn't feel a thing in my muscles - which I initially thought was a good thing - but that's what you'd expect if it wasn't actually physically doing anything to the muscles. On a positive note, my left calf has a much deeper sense of inner peace, less anxiety and enhanced decision-making capabilities.

I don't know much about dry needling, but Japanese acupuncture certainly appears to have a solid foundation in pseudoscience.

#17 Canons

    CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts
  • Joined: 29-November 10
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Tamworth

Posted 24 December 2011 - 03:10 PM

Is Acupuncture/Dry Needling useful for a sore knee? If so how is it done, and how deep should needle tips be inserted?

I hyper-extended my knee a couple of weeks ago during a bike accident, and after confirming no tendon issues still have a dull pain under the knee-cap. Have tried rolling the ITB which has given only minimal relief.

#18 windcrusader

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 25 December 2011 - 01:29 PM

View PostNeillS, on 12 December 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

Dry needling has an excellent evidence base and is widely used by sports medicine practitioners, physios and myotherapists.

Hmmm, I'm not sure about that. Just because an intervention is widely used doesn't guarantee that it is an effective treatment. After all, bloodletting was a widely used therapy in the early part of the 20th century, yet no one would suggest this as a serious treatment these days. Perhaps you have some links to papers that show this evidence because I haven't seen any evidence apart from anecdotal reports?  The improvement that people see after treatment can generally explained by a combination of the placebo effect, regression to the mean and confirmation bias.

My advice would be to spend your money on something useful like a new pair of runners.

#19 Roffy

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 215 posts
  • Joined: 23-January 06
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Victoria

Posted 27 December 2011 - 08:12 AM

There is actually quite a bit of research on dry needling. A good resource is the www.gemt.com.au website. You have to do dig a bit into the articles section to find the research ones. It is important to remember dry needling is not a treatment on its own, it just another tool in a therapists " tool box".  The other point which I think has been stated here before is dry needling has nothing to with acupuncture. Dry needling or  "Trigger point dry needling", is purely designed to release myofascial trigger points, which can produce an array of symptoms. In simple terms the the researchers have found that trigger points are maintained by excessive production of a neurotransmitter at the synapse, the insertion of the needle acts as an irritant and causes release of the buffer to the neurotransmitter and this turns the trigger point off.

#20 chariotlegs

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 109 posts
  • Joined: 29-May 10
  • Sex:Female
  • Location:Perth, WA

Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:05 PM

Correction on my post above - Dry Needling was utilised by the physio :)

Edited by chariotlegs, 27 December 2011 - 12:06 PM.


#21 windcrusader

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 28 December 2011 - 08:37 PM

View PostRoffy, on 27 December 2011 - 08:12 AM, said:

There is actually quite a bit of research on dry needling. A good resource is the www.gemt.com.au website.

So you refer me to website that promotes dry needling as a treatment? I might be mistaken, however I doubt I will find any peer reviewed research here. When I use the term 'research', I mean peer reviewed research, where possible of the double-blind placebo controlled kind. A Cochrane review woud also be useful. We must of course be careful to be specific when we speak of acupuncture/dry needling. What are we treating, and what is the physiological mechanism underlying such a treatment?

I point to one of the papers on the Gemt website that I thought was particularly damning of dry needling. Cummings and White state within their own conclusion the following:

Quote

The hypothesis that needling therapies have specific efficacy (ie, efficacy beyond placebo) in the treatment of myofascial trigger point pain is neither supported nor refuted by the research to date. However, the present review suggests that any effect these therapies may have is likely due to the needle or placebo, rather than to the injection, whether it be of liquid in general or a particular substance. Because marked improvements occurred in all groups in which trigger points were directly needled, further research is required to investigate whether trigger point needling has an effect beyond placebo, with emphasis on the use of an adequate control for the needle

So basically, it is unlikely that the treatment has any specific effect beyond placebo. Sure there is the possibility that there is some effect, but if it exists it is very small and unlikely to be of any clinical benefit. They 'bend over backwards' a bit to be complementary and to look for something positive to say, when really all they can come up with is that 'further research is required'.

#22 NeillS

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Joined: 04-May 10
  • Location:North Melbourne

Posted 29 December 2011 - 01:21 PM

I don't have to link you to any articles showing efficacy because you've just done it for me. That study is one of the early ones where they examined the use of cortizone/saline/whatever injections into the trigger point. All of the patients got better, significantly. Therefore the conclusion was that the needle itself was causing the trigger point to release, not the injected liquid. "marked improvements occurred in all groups in which trigger points were directly needled". The study was examining wet needling versus dry needling.

There are multiple studies confirming trigger point release following dry needling, the latest ones have used ultrasound and fine-wire electrode examinations to watch the response, there are lots of things that happen at the needle site, chemical, mechanical and electrical. Interestingly, dry needling has been shown to improve the pain levels and electrical hypersensitivity associated with myofascial trigger points for up to 72 hours after the event. This is what I see with my clients all the time - a day of post-treatment soreness followed by gradual decline of the trigger point pain over the next 48 hours.

I could go and find the articles but I'm a bit busy at work this arvo.

Edited by NeillS, 29 December 2011 - 01:24 PM.


#23 monaltrie

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 104 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 02
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:lismore nsw

Posted 31 December 2011 - 03:19 PM

Dry needling or acupuncture....have had it from my GP (who is also a runner) for both calf and medial ligament over the last 12 months and results very positive. Obviously the person doing it needs to know what they are doing. Was not too sure of the process before I went to him...but now sold on the process.

#24 windcrusader

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 01 January 2012 - 12:12 PM

View PostNeillS, on 29 December 2011 - 01:21 PM, said:

"marked improvements occurred in all groups in which trigger points were directly needled". The study was examining wet needling versus dry needling.

Marked improvement doesn't prove anything, and the study specifically says that the improvement could be caused by placebo or the needling. Given the lack of physical plausibility of the treatment, then the placebo explanation seems the most likely.

Let me ask you something. You say that all your clients improve as a result of the needling. How are you sure that it is the needling that causes the improvement? How do you know that they wouldn't improve anyway (regression to the mean), or that they are not just improving because you spent time with them and they think they will improve (placebo effect)?

#25 theturtle

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 202 posts
  • Joined: 30-April 10
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Hub of the West...Dubbo

Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:43 AM

I had a rotator cuff injury 2 years ago (shoulder) which is a slow healing and painful injury. Was going to a traditional physio for treatment. My GP suggested accupuncture, three treatments later it felt excelleet and I havent looked back. I was very sceptical, but now think there could be something in it based on my experiment of one.

#26 undercover brother

    horny

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,201 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 02
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:brisbane

Posted 02 January 2012 - 09:07 AM

windcrusader - if you are suggesting a 'proper' RCT how do you suggest you treat the control group.
ie. how do you 'sham' dry needling?
I believe there are some sham accupuncture studies but my basic understanding is it's very difficult to sham properly.
And if you've had dry needling you'd understand why! :)
If multiple studies have shown trigger point release and pain reduction as Neil says then that's a very good start.
At least the treatment is producing the desired physiological effect.
My only questions then are is it beneficial above tennis ball/musclemate/massage and do any of these reduce injury.
Which is much harder to prove.

#27 loubee

    1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,792 posts
  • Joined: 19-June 07
  • Sex:Female
  • Location:Goldfields, Vic

Posted 02 January 2012 - 07:15 PM

View Postundercover brother, on 02 January 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

And if you've had dry needling you'd understand why! :)
If multiple studies have shown trigger point release and pain reduction as Neil says then that's a very good start.
At least the treatment is producing the desired physiological effect.
My only questions then are is it beneficial above tennis ball/musclemate/massage and do any of these reduce injury.
Which is much harder to prove.
Good question, as mentioned earlier I use a combo of massage and dry needling to try and stay injury free.
Prior to my first Ultra in December I had 2 massages in week 3 & 2 away, both of these massages were painful and hard to get all the knots out, week 1 Wed had dry needling at physio -  ITB, calves, hamstring and hips. Final massage Friday not a knot to be found, even I could fill how much smoother the massage was. without the dry needling I don't think the final massage would have been so effective. No injuries and the niggles prior and during taper all gone.

That's my study complete.

Edited by loubee, 02 January 2012 - 07:16 PM.


#28 windcrusader

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 02 January 2012 - 09:33 PM

UCB. I agree it is difficult to sham properly. However that doesn't mean that all hope is lost - it just makes it more difficult to isolate the placebo effect, confirmation bias, regression to mean and all the other effects that cause people to think the treatment is what is causing them to get better when it probably isn't.

Let's be clear here, I'm not trying to suggest that people's 'problems' don't improve after dry needling - on the contrary I would expect them to for all the reasons previously mentioned by me. All I'm saying is that there is limited evidence for the efficacy of dry needling beyond placebo, and therefore I would not recommend it.

#29 TFive

    almost a 1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 998 posts
  • Joined: 15-January 07
  • Sex:Female
  • Location:Sydney

Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:09 PM

I've found acupuncture to very helpful particularly for Achilles problems . I suppose it's a matter of what works for you .

#30 NeillS

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Joined: 04-May 10
  • Location:North Melbourne

Posted 03 January 2012 - 08:00 AM

Not ALL of my clients improve from dry needling, I never said that. I don't dry needle everyone - only if their problem is myofascial trigger point pain or muscle spasm. If I've got the diagnosis correct, and I've applied the technique correctly - then they improve. There are not many sub-categories of people that it doesn't work on. The only people on whom I've ever found who dry needling was ineffective (assuming what I said above holds true) were people with severe neural hypersensitivity - those complex hyperalgesic clients with whiplash/CRPS type symptoms. There is something in the neural system (probably dorsal horn gating issues) which occasionally don't respond to it - or only for a short period before reverting to their previous state. Dry needling, for myofascial pain syndromes, is by far the most effective treatment known yet. It's certainly the best thing I have ever found for chronic muscle pain patients. If you're after some concrete proof, you will find many studies all over the place which have shown, chronologically;

Myofascial pain as being a legitimate recognised phenomenon

Isolation of MTrP's and referral patterns for them (travell and simons' were the gurus here: https://www.physiosh...0683307719.html)

More recently, studies trying to ascertain what happens at the trigger point site, how it occurs and why, and how to relieve it. A lot of these examine needling and show pain relief, trigger point dissemination, electrical endplate noise dissapation etc etc etc

This site has a few links to studies explaining the background of trigger points:
http://www.kinetacor...iew/page34.html

This PDF is an excellent overview, it was written in 2006 so it's not totally up to date, have a read of page 76 to 80: http://www.dgs.eu.co...ry_Needling.pdf

As someone above mentioned, it is difficult to perform sham trigger point needling - there is even evidence that due to the neuromechanical nature of the trigger points, even superficial dry needling (inserting the needle into the skin above the muscle fascicle) is effective in releasing the trigger point.

An excerpt from page 77 showed the physiological effects which was what I was referring to above. LTR refers to a Local Twitch Response - anybody who's had proper dry needling will know what that feels like  :Nail Biting:

"Recent research by Shah et al 125at the US National
Institutes of Health underscored the importance of eliciting
LTRs with TrP-DDN. Those authors sampled and
measured the in vitro biochemical milieu within normal
muscle and at active and latent MTrPs in near real-time
at the sub-nanogram level of concentration; they found
significantly increased concentrations of bradykin, calcitonin-
gene-related-peptide, substance P, tumor necrosis
factor-α, interleukin-1β, serotonin, and norepinephrine
in the immediate milieu of active MTrPs only125. After
the researchers elicited an LTR at the active and latent
MTrPs, the concentrations of the chemicals in the immediate
vicinity of active MTrPs spontaneously reduced to
normal levels. Not only did this study suggest that LTRs
might normalize the chemical environment near active
MTrPs and reduce the concentration of several nociceptive
substances, it also confirmed that the clinical distinction
between latent and active MTrPs was associated with a
highly significant objective difference in the nociceptive
milieu125. Another study confirmed the importance
of eliciting LTRs with TrP-DDN."


Shah and others have done a few more like that recently with ultrasound but I can't find the link any more - it's somewhere in the depths of the pubmed site.

The information that's coming out now seems to suggest increasingly that you need to elicity LTR's for it to be effective (that's how I was taught as well) and you need to choose the clients carefully - inaccurate diagnosis renders it ineffective. I've had some really crazy case studies of people who've had complex pain syndromes for years and years with no relief from all sorts of treatment, who then get remarkably better with thoughtfully applied dry needling. It's an excellent tool and is one of the most effective and useful things I've ever found as a practitioner. Like most things though, it's only as good as the person applying it!

Edited by NeillS, 03 January 2012 - 08:07 AM.


#31 NeillS

    veryCoolRunner

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Joined: 04-May 10
  • Location:North Melbourne

Posted 03 January 2012 - 08:23 AM

I had a client recently (who, due to the unusual nature of her issue, allowed me to use her as a case example for the public and fellow practitioners) who had a 12 year history of right sided headache. Every single day for 12 years. She was under a certain eminent neurological professor here in melbourne who had prescribed anti-epileptic meds, heavy painkillers, basically a cocktail of stuff which kept them down to a 4/10 pain (without meds they were 8-9/10).

I treated her for an unrelated back complaint, and asked about the headaches. She had, over 10 years, had every type of treatment you can think of - physio, chiro, acupuncture, three specialists - no luck. Diagnosed as a "cluster headache". It looked a lot like a certain type of headache I see which is a referred pain pattern from the suboccipital extensors - splenius capitus and others. I dry needled them on the right side. Massive headache and shooting pains whilst eliciting the LTR's (these ones always hurt like hell). She was almost painfree for 4 days, then as it crept back we hit it again. We did it a total of six or seven times over 6 weeks, spacing them apart as her headaches stopped. She went off all her meds and saw the Neurologist again who was pleasantly surprised. He was so surprised he called me and asked what the hell we had done - spent 10 minutes on the phone to him explaining the phenomenon. He was astounded. For the first time in 12 years she had no headaches on a day to day basis. I've seen her sporadically since then, every few months or so, as the headaches seem to slowly creep back occasionally (office worker - her shoulder/neck tightens up which pulls on the fascia and sets off the suboccipitals - pretty classic one). We are hoping that the motor end plates and her dorsal horn gating systems will eventually revert fully back to normal and she'll never have another one. Neuro-plasticity in this area also requires the axons in her brain to re-organise and for the pain "map" in her cortex to turn fully off, which takes time, but we're quietly hopeful for a 100% cure.

You've got to remember that this type of stuff is pretty new, and it's really the front-line of health care guys who are doing it - physios, osteopaths, myotherapists - those "first line" contact practitioners - so the neurosurgeon had no real idea what I was on about. He saves lives by cutting people's tumours out of their brainstems most of the time, so this type of stuff is well below his pay grade. Add to that that it's an extremely young treatment, maybe 10 or 20 years of mainstream use - and you'd expect a lot of people to be in the dark about it. Another problem is that it's hard to study - really hard - but we're getting there in the last 5-10 years or so.

As you can tell, it's a slow day in the office this morning  :Rolling Eyes:     haha! Everyone's still on holidays I think.

#32 trosa001

    Newbie

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Joined: 03-January 12
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:adelaide

Posted 03 January 2012 - 08:54 PM

hey guys. looking for a bit of advice

ive been unable to properly use my right leg since june 2011. i pretty much overused it with a combination of running, rpm classes and kickbox classes.

at first i wasnt sure what i had done so i let it settle for a couple weeks but not much luck. then i went and saw a physio who applied dry needling which gave me some relief in certain areas.

at the time, i didnt realise how much of my right leg i had hurt. it basically is my foot, ankle, calves, chins, entire quad, hamstrings (especially the hamstring junction with the bank of the right knee inner side), groin.

the dry needling wasnt getting me back to where i wanted to be because as i said i didnt realise how much damage i really had done.

i had some more dry needling a couple times a week but still couldnt get back to 100%. to cut a loing story short, i find myself here (more than 6 months later) still unable to use my right leg and foot properly.

i used to play soccer many moons ago and my legs and foot bascially feel stiff as a rock. i dont have flexability in my foot and in my hip flexor.

i also have a torn supraspinatus rotator cuff injury in my right shoulder

i have paid a "rehab" trainer to help me get back and has advised i need to do light weight exercies with kettle bells and an olympic weight lifting bar to fix my legs and shoulder

i find that his massage is really good and helps me more than the actual training does.

im still not happy with the results and after reading this page, im leaning towards giving acupuncture a try in my shoulder and entire right leg.

i have been stretching for 30mins-1 hour every day for the past 5 weeks and feel better (in addtion to the massage and training) but i feel like i need another kicker.

any advice anyone? i know i just through alot of information at you :)

#33 undercover brother

    horny

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,201 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 02
  • Sex:Male
  • Location:brisbane

Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:56 PM

as always thanks for the input Neil.
will have a proper read when i have a tick.