22 replies to this topic

[pancakes]

Hi there,

So, I am training for my first half marathon. I am running 4 days a week.

I started running in October. Today, I ran 8.5km in 1 hr in humidity with hills...

I am a big guy, 196cm and 129kg... I wear a size 14 shoe, so I guess i'm not your typical 'running' type

At the moment my mileage is 25km a week, and the race is the Canberra Half Marathon.

My training plan (adidas miCoach) is having me do like thresholds at above 11km/h  - i.e. I run 7.5mins at about 8km/h and then I run about 20 mins at 11km/h and then a final 7.5mins at 8km/h, so I am averaging about 32-33 mins for 5km.

I average about 8.4 or 8.6km /h and I have no trouble really 'doing' the long runs etc ie as I write now, I'm not tired, no ITBS issues apart from when I did a 14km City2Sea when my body really wasn't ready...

I'm not in it for the speed but my friends say that a 2:30 half marathon would be respectable. I have lost about 6kg since I started running but my legs are getting big really fast.

What do I need to do, do I need to kick it up a gear and get more distance under the belt? Any advice from someone with more XP would be appreciated. I'm kinda doing this by myself.

What motivated me to start running was because I found out the wife was pregnant and I didn't want to be an obese dad - and it's a scientific fact that overweight parents make overweight kids - http://kidshealth.or...ht_obesity.html

I have to be a good example to my child, so this is my way.

Thanks for help below.

Pancakes

[cappy]

Firstly, good in you as achieving your specific goal is admirable

I'd up your total ks for the week, mainly by increasing your long run, ideally up to 25km if you want a comfortable half race. Otherwise anything up to race distance is good but of course it'll hurt on race day when you venture into the unknown of those extra few kms and extra time on the road

Is 2:30 your goal time that you've decided on or just something your friends have just put in your head? If you can get your long run up to 21km or above, then I would say to set yourself a goal time for the race. If not, just focus on being even paced, well hydrated, well nutritioned, enjoy the event and bring it home safe and well, still with the love of running and no thoughts of "never again"

Well done on your progress so far and keep it up

Oh, and stay off the pancakes, pancakes

[SpecBGT]

G'day Pancakes and good on you for getting out there and your motivation for doing so should be applauded. There is no such thing as a typical runner, we come in all shapes and sizes. At your current pace ~8.5km/hr or ~7:06min/km you'll do the HM in 2.5hrs. Your aim now should be to slowly increase your long run so that your body gets used to running for that time. Gradual increases of around 10% total kms per week and every 3-4 weeks back off as the body cannot usually sustain this over a long period.  I ran my first HM last year and that was my focus. Don't be concerned with speed at this stage, that will develop as your fitness base improves. Your legs are probably getting bigger and stronger from carrying you over those distances. Although it is thought that once you start increasing your distances the weight should fall off but this is not always the case. Be aware that your appetite also increases, so if you want to drop the kgs careful monitoring of your diet is also required. Good luck and listen to your body. Staying injury free is paramount. Missing a day or two to recover from tiredness is better than missing weeks due to an injury. See you at Canberra HM.

[Stej]

Congratulations on getting out there Pancakes - a noble aim to pick up the fitness for the expected kid.  I'm sure you will feel better yourself too.  

In terms of increasing milage do so slowly but consistently.  An increase of 10% per week or so really starts to add up after a month or two.  Too much too soon is a recipe for injury.

I'm not sure when the Canberra HM is but if you have time see if you can fit in a shorter race before then.  This should keep you motivated and give you a chance to see how you are going.  Given your name, perhaps consider one of the Sri Chinmoy races - they have free pancakes after the race!

Enjoy

[russell2pi]

pancakes, on 08 January 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

My training plan (adidas miCoach) is having me do like thresholds ...

What do I need to do, do I need to kick it up a gear and get more distance under the belt?

I didn't want to be an obese dad

First of all good on you for making an effort to set a good example to your child!  

I would have thought you're on the right track with wanting to up the distance -- slowly, as others have said -- and potentially, drop the threshold runs. Just do everything at an easy pace until you're doing the mileage you want. Your body will be able to cope more easily if they are all easy miles-- easier to front up to a run today if yesterday was an hour's easy run than an hour's ballbreaking. And less chance of injury, too. Once the base is there, then bring back threshold runs etc. (Probably by then weight loss will also be helping you out.)

Edited by russell2pi, 08 January 2012 - 06:25 PM.

[B+]

pancakes, on 08 January 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

I am a big guy, 196cm and 129kg... I wear a size 14 shoe, so I guess i'm not your typical 'running' type

As you state your a big guy. I will assume your not from a running background. Be very aware of shin pain/tightness as lots of heavier new runners end up vary levels of shin splints or shin pain when they start doing more km's

At the rsik of being accussed of turning you to the dark sides, I have 2 suggestions.
1. Run whatever km's you can on grass or trails to lessen the risk of just thumping along as you get tired.
2. Ride your bike (if you have one) you can get good aerobic work and calories burned with no impact on your legs, this will help a lot as you try to drop weight whilst increasing your duration of aerobic conditioning. You can back this off or stop it whenever you feel you are good to run all your work load.

At your pace I would also recomend to you to run for time not distance.

Train safe

[pancakes]

B+, on 08 January 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

As you state your a big guy. I will assume your not from a running background.
At the rsik of being accussed of turning you to the dark sides, I have 2 suggestions.
1. Run whatever km's you can on grass or trails to lessen the risk of just thumping along as you get tired.
2. Ride your bike (if you have one) you can get good aerobic work and calories burned with no impact on your legs, this will help a lot as you try to drop weight whilst increasing your duration of aerobic conditioning. You can back this off or stop it whenever you feel you are good to run all your work load.

Thanks all for your replies.

I don't know what you mean by being from a running background, my brother is a good half marathoner / marathoner and we share the same genes, but I am a good 10cm taller than him and about 50kg heavier.. :S

I will run more on the bike trail with Gravel, I guess this works. I wear some pretty big shoes - Adidas Salvation 2.

I was told that if I wear compression socks while running that this may reduce the chance of getting shin splints, so I have been wearing some. I feel a bit like a dick - because well, my legs look pretty good to be honest, there's not much fat on them it's just all on my belly and chest and hips. A couple of dudes shouted out nice socks to me from their 80's beater commodore, which I responded, nice s#!tbox mate...

As for riding and stuff, I'm not really keen on riding because being as big as I am, you cannot really just go out and get a cheap regular bike, you gotta go for something a bit bigger / crazy and I don't want to spend $$$$ on a new bike. I do a bit of swimming, I would maybe consider doing like treadmilling in a pool, I watched a documentary with a lady Deena Kastor who did that kinda stuff in the pool, treadmill pool running.

I don't run for speed and it's kinda hard to consider what it would be like being 30kg lighter. Some people say losing 1kg means you drop 2 seconds per kilometer. I guess this  means that if I was to arrive at goal weight, I'd be running a full minute faster...

No need for speed I guess.. Starting next week I'll up the mileage a bit more, I've gone from 12 to 25 in about 3 months...

Any additional comments welcomed.

I will see you in Canberra. If you see a big dude with a low bib number in the half marathon struggling, that will be me and my swiss mate who will be coming with me.

Edited by pancakes, 08 January 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[SpecBGT]

Nice response to the dudes in the commodore, I guess they wouldn't consider arguing the point with you. Some CRs have to be a little more diplomatic in their retorts. As has been said before, the progress in the next 3 months maybe a little slower so be prepared to back off a little if need be. You want to make sure that you are continually running right up until the Canberra HM in April.

[SpecBGT]

pancakes, on 08 January 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

I will run more on the bike trail with Gravel, I guess this works. I wear some pretty big shoes - Adidas Salvation 2.

Also, just having a look at the course for the Canberra HM it will be on road and cement paths. Very harsh on the legs if you are not used to it. Doing most of your kms on the trails is good but at some stage you will have get onto to the road. It can make quite a difference.

[Eagle]

SpecBGT, on 08 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

G'day Pancakes and good on you for getting out there and your motivation for doing so should be applauded. There is no such thing as a typical runner, we come in all shapes and sizes. At your current pace ~8.5km/hr or ~7:06min/km you'll do the HM in 2.5hrs. Your aim now should be to slowly increase your long run so that your body gets used to running for that time. Gradual increases of around 10% total kms per week and every 3-4 weeks back off as the body cannot usually sustain this over a long period.  I ran my first HM last year and that was my focus. Don't be concerned with speed at this stage, that will develop as your fitness base improves. Your legs are probably getting bigger and stronger from carrying you over those distances. Although it is thought that once you start increasing your distances the weight should fall off but this is not always the case. Be aware that your appetite also increases, so if you want to drop the kgs careful monitoring of your diet is also required. Good luck and listen to your body. Staying injury free is paramount. Missing a day or two to recover from tiredness is better than missing weeks due to an injury. See you at Canberra HM.

Perfect advice above.

• slowly increase distance by no more thn 10% per week
  
• focus on an increase on the longest run of the week
  
• speed is not important - getting distance in yor legs is the focus

Congratulations on getting motivated and started .

[HillsAths1]

Pancakes, congratulations on getting started and congratulations on setting a goal (and also having a great reason for the goal).

My comments will be a little different to most as I think that 21km's is a big (sorry about the pun)ask.

My suggestion would be to aim for a 10k race (14th April in Canberra) as an alternative.

If you still decide to do the Half You do not need to run past 21km's to do a half, very few Marathoners would do 42km's in training so similarly with a half you do not need to do the distance(Very rarely have I run over 16kms but I have managed to run a number of halves under 90 mins and never over 100 minutes)

I would think that if you look at your running as a change in lifestyle and look at the long term goals and not short term (April) you will find that it will become easier.

As previously stated by others staying injury free is paramount to long term progression, ensure you have reasonable footwear, perhaps get the all clear from your Dr.

If you can find some running partners so you are not so lonely out there.

Enjoy your running.

[Colin]

Agree with HillsAths on not overdoing the distance. One of the fallibilities of a forum such as this is that the advice will lean towards 'more distance'.
Focus on just running regularly so that it becomes more and more comfortable and at the same time get your weight down by other means ...running won't make you leaner by itself.
So as you get lighter you will be able to go faster, do more consistent running and get fitter...the wieght loss and fitness will complement each other.
BTW, shin splints (and lots of other injuries) are not impact dependent but a biomech issue and related to doing too much too soon (both speed and distance). Compression socks can't prevent it (based on the reasons why it happens) so no need to feel like a dick

[howcanhegosofast]

Yes totally agree with you there Colin - 'running won't make you leaner by itself'. Nutrition is the other piece of that puzzle.

Hey Pancakes, have been in the same boat as you, tried 'running' at 110+ kg and decided after about 100 metres that I needed to drop the weight first. Would have been a great way to set myself up for injury (and to potentially hate running forever). As a non-runner it seemed to work for me, it wasn't until I got down to about 85kg with very strict nutrition and heaps of high intensity 'cardio' that I could begin to run pain free at all. Starting to do the walk-run at 85kg instead of 110 kg felt so much better on the legs and ankles.

Then all of a sudden it's like ... hey, maybe I can run after all.... but I'm not a runner.... I hate running.... maybe I can do this... actually it's not too bad.... got up that hill this week... gee I'm hungry all the time... give me food......

[Tiger Boy]

Pancakes - as most people have said, you need to get your long runs up at least closer to distance, and you need to get to that point probably by mid to late Feb so that you can get several long runs in bfore tapering back.
The longest i would run for a Hm would be 23kms, but i find most people can get through with a longest run of about 18/19kms. I would try to get in a couple of "medium long' runs, around 12 -14 kms at race pace. In your case (with little experience of running that distance), try to find a pace you can maintain without too much difficulty and hold it for the whole 12-14kms. This will get your body used to the idea of maintaining that pace for a sustained period.
Not sure where you do your running, but i would suggest from ringwood you could run the Mullum Mullum trail, from just behind eastland and out to just past Maccas in Croydon (Highland rd i think) is just under 5kms each way, so a couple of out and back gives you your long run.
Otherwise hit the trails aroud Jells park/Nortons park. Maybe check out the Running in the Burbs group that meet at Jells park on Saturday mornings.

[Arn]

HillsAths1, on 09 January 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

I would think that if you look at your running as a change in lifestyle and look at the long term goals and not short term (April) you will find that it will become easier.

I think long term goals are really important. Do you have any thoughts on what you are going to do after the 21k? If you dont you are likely to find yourself completely lost and all your hard work may be quickly witled away. I'd suggest always having another goal ready which can also help if you get injured at the last minute: Faster race times? More weight loss? Longer distances? Petrol savings from running to/from work? Whatever your goals are I'm sure you will get there!

[twosheds]

I agree with all that HillsAth and Colin ( and others)have said here. Just adding distance for the sake of it is not always the best thing- for weight or fitness. Doing what you can sustain on a moderate  diet is really important. Let the body get used to the changes gradually.
Don't be in a rush-just run regularly so that it becomes more and more enjoyable. Learn to relax while running- keep your pace easy and relax your upper body. The more enjoyable you can make these early months the more likely you are to stick with it in the future.
best of luck!
twosheds

[keeponkeepingon]

Go for it big fella.
Your story is somewhat familiar with where i was at last year. Mid 2010 I was 130kg at 188cm and really needed to do something. Started walking and as the weight started dropping moved into more running. My goal last year was a 1/2 marathon completed, but i wasn't necessarily worried about a time. I finished the Perth C2S in 2:18 with my longest run only 12km previously. Not ideal preparation due to injury and would suggest the longer runs as others have pointed out. Six months on from that I am still improving and enjoying my running. Enjoy and best of luck.

[grimsey]

Pancakes from where your running is at the moment i totally agree with Hills advice. If i was coaching you, as Hills says i would try to get you to do a 10km instead and maybe do a half later in the year.( though i think you would be better putting it of until next year)
Good luck with your running!

[pancakes]

Hey everyone, thanks for the continued advice and feedback...

Well, the bad news is that I am already registered for the half and i have a friend coming from europe who wants to do it with me, so I am kinda stuck.. So far touch wood, no pain, no soreness or tenderness at all.

I did 7km tonight in 45 minutes without ever really having to gasp for breath, i.e. when i first started i was gurgling and sucking and slurping but now i notice that apart from the loud padding sound of my feet, my breathing is pretty much under control and I can manage to keep that speed going pretty good unless i have to run up a biggish hill.

As to the comment about not wearing knee high socks and feeling like a d&ck when I do... scary thing is that after wearing them for a few weeks, not wearing them makes me feel naked... I dont know what to do...

Where do I run? Along the Eastlink trail. Sometimes the dandenong creek trail. I live just near the new McDonalds *dont eat there* and yeah I can run that all the way to croydon i guess, infact, one of my favourites is to head out after work, catch the train to Boronia and run home from there.

Other trips include from Bunnings Vermont South to Jells Park and back...

[pancakes]

howcanhegosofast, on 09 January 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Hey Pancakes, have been in the same boat as you, tried 'running' at 110+ kg and decided after about 100 metres that I needed to drop the weight first. Would have been a great way to set myself up for injury (and to potentially hate running forever). As a non-runner it seemed to work for me, it wasn't until I got down to about 85kg with very strict nutrition and heaps of high intensity 'cardio' that I could begin to run pain free at all. Starting to do the walk-run at 85kg instead of 110 kg felt so much better on the legs and ankles.

i guess being my height, my weight was always up there. When I was skinny I was 98kg in high school...

And i mean literally, i was skinny, ribs showing through...

I dont really experience pain now...

Arn, on 10 January 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

I think long term goals are really important. Do you have any thoughts on what you are going to do after the 21k? If you dont you are likely to find yourself completely lost and all your hard work may be quickly witled away. I'd suggest always having another goal ready which can also help if you get injured at the last minute: Faster race times? More weight loss? Longer distances? Petrol savings from running to/from work? Whatever your goals are I'm sure you will get there!

Um, the weight loss is what I want to achieve - but I don't see running as the 'way' to lose weight, I know it's 80% diet and therefore that's more important. What motivates me to run is a little brother who has boxes full of medals.

Once I finish the 21km, I dont know, I want to get obviously a bit quicker but I know that's not going to happen until I stop lugging around the 30kg parachute.

keeponkeepingon, on 10 January 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

Go for it big fella.
Your story is somewhat familiar with where i was at last year. Mid 2010 I was 130kg at 188cm and really needed to do something. Started walking and as the weight started dropping moved into more running. My goal last year was a 1/2 marathon completed, but i wasn't necessarily worried about a time. I finished the Perth C2S in 2:18 with my longest run only 12km previously. Not ideal preparation due to injury and would suggest the longer runs as others have pointed out. Six months on from that I am still improving and enjoying my running. Enjoy and best of luck.

Thats great mate...  Thanks and i appreciate your first post on the forums was to write back to me

[pancakes]

Hey everyone, wanted to let you know about how training is going.

So, I'll be off doing the sardine 14.38km Run for the Kids run this sunday. 14km is no issue and I can belt out a 10km in under an hour and a 5km in under 28 mins...

So, I Have a target of 90 minutes for the 14km.

I just finished my final long distance training run. 18km in 1hr 53 minutes. I'm comfortable that I can make the 21km required because I had minimal nutrition and hydration. So, I think beating 2:30 is going to be possible, with an average speed of 9.4 km/h and also a fastest km on 11.1km/h

THanks for the well wishes.

I'm keeping on track, down to 120kg - and my legs are pretty much fully defined, I think the weight is about to start flying off.

Baby is getting bigger though So maybe have to put running on the back burner in a month or so...

See you at Canberra, Bib Blue 127 (half marathon) and my mate 128.

Edited by pancakes, 28 March 2012 - 09:22 PM.

[starsoid]

Hey Pankakes you are smokin'! Just read through this thread for the first time, and you've taken 5 minutes off your 5K time in 2 and a half months. Sounds like you're well on track - nice work!

Good luck for the race!

[Tracymumto7]

I hope we get to read how you've gone in the half. Fabulous times you are doing. I'm very impressed. You've done so well in such a short time

Edited by Tracymumto7, 15 April 2012 - 10:22 AM.