29 replies to this topic

[richardegg]

Hello all,

I am fairly new to long distance running; have been giving carb loading a go *but* I seem to be overdoing it and eating the wrong things.

I was going to ask a) is carb-loading for 21-42K type distances really necessary, and b] if so, how many carbs/calories over and above normal intake is worthwhile?

I was only ever wanting to carb load for the full day before my weekly long run, which is now up to 30.6k. The whole 6-7 day cycle does not really fit my schedule.

Thoughts and ideas?

cNums....

Edited by c2105026, 24 February 2012 - 08:23 PM.

[mgi11a]

I personally don't worry about carb loading when training. Might be just me but I like the idea of trying to hit the wall in training.

For runs up to 2 hrs or even a bit over I will only take water. And most of the time will do these on an empty stomach.

As for how many carbs to take. You might want to read this http://www.theglobea...article2309458/

Cheers

mgilla

Edited by mgi11a, 24 February 2012 - 08:43 PM.

[Lukefrazz]

Agree that carb loading probably isn't necessary for every long run, although if you have a goal race coming up you could do a few race rehearsals to see what foods work/don't work for you. The article above is a pretty good read for starters.

Just out of curiousity what sort of foods are you loading up on the day before?

[vat]

Don't carb load for long runs, save it for races.

For race carb loading, the AIS has an excellent guide.

[richardegg]

To be honest....my carb loading diet is not good.

Today, whilst prepping for 30.6k run.....

Brekky: 50g uncle toby oat brits, small banana, 3tsp sugar, 1 1/2 cups lite soy milk. After brekky went for short 5.6k run.

Lunch: Foot long chicken schnitzel sub (subway) with cinnamon scroll (at subway), 600ml diet coke.

Afternoon tea: (Mccafe) 2 scones w/ jam and cream, regular soy cappuccino.

Dinner: Bread roll w/ butter, medium pizza, banana bread, peach/raspberry bread, dotty biscuit, can of coke and coke zero (at local RSL)

Foods I am carb loading are also high-fat foods. Was in location where I had to eat out for lunch and dinner, in hindsight there were plenty of lower fat choices available. I think deep down am using carb loading as an excuse to have a pig-out.

[vat]

Lukefrazz, on 24 February 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

...although if you have a goal race coming up you could do a few race rehearsals to see what foods work/don't work for you

Actually...this is a really smart idea.

[TopEndChick]

I agree that it is good to train without loading as you will feel what it is like to hit the wall and then if it happens during the race, you will know that you can get through it. For training, I usually do have some extra brown rice the night before, but beyond that, don't tend to go overboard.

Practice leading up the race is a good idea, but just keep an eye on choices. Go for complex carbs. I prefer brown rice or quinoa and avoid gluten, simple sugars, preservatives and basically anything processed.

Sorry C2, nothing personal, love your enthusiasm, but perhaps an example of foods which might not agree with you the next day? . I use the day of my long run as my 'treat day' / excuse to relax the diet a bit...

[Mixie]

I carb load for my long runs at close to marathon pace and plan to do a 30k one 2morrow.

I only take in around 3500 calories and eat 5-6 small meals(breakfast is biggest) normally with diluted orange or milk instead of water with meals and no large dinner.

Fat is kept to a minimum and would take in same carbs as u(around 650-700 grammes)

When I carb load-can definately feel the difference in my legs compared to my easier pace long runs when I don't

[Caterpillar]

c2105026, on 24 February 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

...I think deep down am using carb loading as an excuse to have a pig-out.

yes, it sounds like you were running to eat, rather than eating to run. All the best with the weight management. I usually don't carb load the day before a 30km except to take an additional 100 measly calories. However on the morning, will have some extra carbs, around 200 calories before hand, and another 200-300 during the run in the form of sports drink, lollies, GU. To avoid glycogen depletion, I try to aim for at least 60% of my daily caloric intake be in the form of carbs.  I use calorieking.com.au

[twosheds]

I agree with Vat. The guidelines for AIS- 10g of carb/kg of body weigh/day for 3days. It should be low fast, reasonably low protein and low residue .But you would never do this
for a training run-only for marathon ( or ultra)race day and not too often. You need to have a decent amount of carbs the day before the long run but not a full carbo load- you will get overweight very fast doing that. Just a normal healthy diet with a  bit more focus on carbs the day before.
for a half- just one day of carb loading would be more than enough.
Remember you run slower in training and/or shorter burning less glycogen.
but practicing the foods that agree with you is a good idea- just not as much.

[Slacker]

vat, on 24 February 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Don't carb load for long runs, save it for races.

For race carb loading, the AIS has an excellent guide.

+1 for AIS

[howcanhegosofast]

Hope you can still move next Sunday c210, that's an awful lot of kj you are taking in so far out from cc half.
Food is evil !

[danish]

I'm following the AIS plan for the Canberra Marathon that has already been linked above. I'm doing it for 3 days leading into this race. I completed it for 2 days before my 2nd half marathon last year and it made a huge difference.

Whats funny is that when I took a photo of my carb hoard and posted it on facebook, my vegetarian friend whose running the marathon with me just refused to believe that soft drink could possibly be ok to consume in the lead of up a marathon (or ever, for that matter). Even after I sent him the link and highlighted the point that stuff you normally wouldn't consume a lot of like soft drink, lollies etc are all encourage to be included in carb loading as an easy way to increase your energy intake without having to waste space with protein or fat he still wouldn't have it.

I guess some people are just too set in their diet ways (carbs are the devil!!!) to ever step outside their boundaries!

[Mile27]

There are probably healthier options to carboload with than soft drinks and lollies though.

The key for me is to reduce dietary fibre in the day before the race and have very simple carbs like white bread . Carbs low in fibre will pass through the system quicker than high fibre ones and be out if your system come race day.

[danish]

Well obviously I'm not scoffing down bags of the stuff but just subbing in a can of coke with lunch instead of my usual water, and a handful of lollies in the afternoon when I might normally have had some fruit or veg.

TBH though 1.5 days into my carb load I am really feeling full. Don't know how I used to eat this much food everyday back in my BFC day

[Ponytail]

I believe the key to a healthy weight is, screw the calorie/fat intake, to an extent!  The key to a healthy body is level insulin levels!  Eliminate insuline spikes and you are on your way.  That means forget about processed foods and starchy carbs and cocentrate on fresh, natural foods and the preparation should be minimal!

[ashima]

Yeah I agree Ponytail. Carboload at the fruit and veggie shop not maccas and subway. You want unprocessed and easily digestible carbs not dense, constipating fats!

[Ponytail]

I read that the main reason that couch potatoes are so lacking in energy and runners are full of it (energy, I mean) is because of diet choices.  A diet high in processed foods and starchy carbs makes the body store energy in fat cells, rather than use it for fuel and, subsequently, a sluggish metabolism, but a diet high in complex carbs and natural, unprocessed foods makes the body want to use calories for energy.  Regular small meals of high protein (and unrefined) complex carbohydrates should keep the metabolic and insulin levels constant and energy levels high.  I'm gonna run with that!

[Bellthorpe]

Starches are complex carbohydrates ...

[Hoary]

I follow a lot of info/books/articles on carb loading....I'm a relative newbie only seriously running for 20 months...& completed 6 x 10km races, 2 halfs & now training for a full on the Sunshine Coast in August. I have experimented with carb loading on most of my long runs just so i can get it right. I'm a 67kg runner & I can't eat all the recommended intake of around 650g of carbs for 2 days before I race.... I am too full & my stomach bounces around if i eat all of this. I have recently discovered a product called Polyjoule which is a white powder substance ( looks like cocaine !! ). You can put it in your water or food & its tasteless & a small scoop equals 8gms of carb...I have found this product to be my saviour...it works well & is easy to use... its also quite cheap....Has anyone else got any thoughts on it ?

[Shankate]

Hoary I use a similar product, 100% maltodextrin which I get 3kg for less than $20. Gram for gram it is the most 'calorie effective' way of carb loading, and as you say it is essentially tasteless with no fibre so you can basically stick to a normal diet. Other high carb foods will have fat, protein, fibre etc., which IN THIS CONTEXT is undesirable. Calorie efficiency is important if you're 'carbing-up' with some frequency (as I am in months leading up to an Ironman), to prevent unwanted weight gain. Also at least you know the carbs are pretty well pure so go straight where you need them without too much digestion/ processing required.

I use maltodextrin to get up to 550g CHO the day before my long rides (5-7hours); & will use it for two days leading up to Ironman.

I must admit I dont carb load for my three hour runs (& these are usually the morning after a long ride), but it probably wouldn't hurt as i'm always running pretty near on empty. For this reason I generally have a couple of gels over 28-35 k.

I guess the downside to the powder is it eliminates the excuse to go back for seconds / thirds with the intent of 'carb loading'!

Edited by Shankate, 18 April 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Perseus]

Isn't polyjoule the same as home brew sugar?

Question for biochemists. Obviously you produce energy from carbs. How much water is produced and is this slow release of water part of the effectivness of carb loading?

[Ultramouse]

Keep talking up the Polyjoule, guys. I have a tub waiting for my next race's preparation. It sounds like the way to go as I, too, have trouble getting 600g of carbs down my throat without feeling bloated.

Perseus, on 18 April 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Isn't polyjoule the same as home brew sugar?

Question for biochemists. Obviously you produce energy from carbs. How much water is produced and is this slow release of water part of the effectivness of carb loading?

Noakes goes into the oxidation of fats and carbohydrates during a race with its associated water production.

[Mile27]

Perseus, on 18 April 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Isn't polyjoule the same as home brew sugar?

Question for biochemists. Obviously you produce energy from carbs. How much water is produced and is this slow release of water part of the effectivness of carb loading?

I'm not a biochemist but it is my understanding that every gram of carbs requires 3 grams of water to store it. So you effectively release 3 grams of water into your system for every gram of carbs you burn.

[Hoary]

Shankate, on 18 April 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Hoary I use a similar product, 100% maltodextrin which I get 3kg for less than $20. Gram for gram it is the most 'calorie effective' way of carb loading, and as you say it is essentially tasteless with no fibre so you can basically stick to a normal diet. Other high carb foods will have fat, protein, fibre etc., which IN THIS CONTEXT is undesirable. Calorie efficiency is important if you're 'carbing-up' with some frequency (as I am in months leading up to an Ironman), to prevent unwanted weight gain. Also at least you know the carbs are pretty well pure so go straight where you need them without too much digestion/ processing required.

I use maltodextrin to get up to 550g CHO the day before my long rides (5-7hours); & will use it for two days leading up to Ironman.

I must admit I dont carb load for my three hour runs (& these are usually the morning after a long ride), but it probably wouldn't hurt as i'm always running pretty near on empty. For this reason I generally have a couple of gels over 28-35 k.

I guess the downside to the powder is it eliminates the
excuse to go back for seconds / thirds with the intent of 'carb loading'!


Yes mate, I find it just easy to work with & it definitely improves my glycogen stores....I'm sold on it...what is the stuff you use called as it sounds like a bargain as Polyjoule is about $13 for 900gms ( still cheap)

[Perseus]

Thanks guys. Will flick through Noakes later.

Not 100% but I thought maltodextrin was what's used for home-brew beer these days. In ye olde days home brew used sucrose. If it is maltodextrin then it's about the same price table sugar and can be bought from Coles/Woolies.

[Shankate]

I get the 'maltodextrin' from a 'sports nutrition' shop in Newcastle, they make up a lot of their own powders & potions (think body building type of place). I couldn't get it at any of the franchise health food stores.

I actually have a vague idea that polyjoule is in fact maltodextrin under a pricier alias??
But it sounds like something out of Harry Potter which is cool :-)

Edited by Shankate, 18 April 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Shankate]

I have to confess I am being lazy (though I am trying to type from my I-phone) & have done a bit of copy & paste from one of (my own) posts on trannies regarding calorie  & bulk efficient carb loading:


Do the math on your CHO needs, work out what you get from a sensible high carb low fibre diet then just have the rest in a powdered / liquid form of CHO. This is the best way to carb-load & reduces the likelihood of weight gain (not counting the water bound to CHO).

As an example 100g CHO from maltodextrin is approx 1600kjs; whereas to get 100g CHO from white bread or bananas you would be looking at 2300kj & 2000kj respectively. When you're trying to get in >500g CHO (550g for me @ 54 kgs); this seriously adds up. The carbs are also a sure thing and not lost in digestion, processing etc. Plus highly reduces the likelihood of GI distress / bloating etc.

Food for thought :-)

[Ponytail]

Bellthorpe, on 18 April 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Starches are complex carbohydrates ...

Sorry, should've been more specific about complex carbohydrates and simple carbohydrates - I dumb it down for myself into thinking of starchy carbs as the bad stuff like  white bread, rice and pasta and processed foods and good carbs as being sweet potato, brown rice and pasta etc, and the more slow releasing stuff.  I crave mashed regular potato like you wouldn't believe but I am terrified of the insulin spike it would cause!

[Perseus]

The rate for maltodextrin is about $6 per kg. Can be purchased online from ebay or home brew shops (google 'home brew'). Sometimes known as powdered corn sugar or corn starch sugar e.g. http://www.absoluteh...age_id=8#sugars