31 replies to this topic

[youngrunner]

The Kenyan Olympic marathon team was announced overnight. The team is:

Men
Wilson Kipsang
Abel Kirui
Moses Mosup

Women
Mary Keitany
Edna Kiplagat
Priscah Jeptoo

Kipsang was pretty much a certainty given he won London last week and almost set a new course record and Kirui is probably justified but having Mosup in means that Patrick Makau is left out despite setting the WR last year and likewise Geoffrey Mutai who set the fastest time over the marathon distance at Boston last year.

How quickly can we get some one processed for Australian citizenship? lol

Washington Post article

Kenyan media article

Edit to add this articlewith excellent commentary on the selections

Edited by youngrunner, 26 April 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[ChrisMac]

Leaving Mutai out says it all about the health of distance running in Kenya.  God help us if they find out about Ironman.  Still, Morocco and Ethipoia have the firepower to pull it off on the day.
Mary Keitany looked like she could have turned around and run the London marathon again.  I can't see anyone troubling her in the Olympics.

[adr1an]

I have absolutely nothing of value to add. But imagine having to decide that team..

Am so excited about the Olympics.

[youngrunner]

ChrisMac, on 26 April 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

God help us if they find out about Ironman.  

Don't think you have to worry about that for a while yet according to this great article - 'When will Kenya discover triathlon?'

[ChrisMac]

youngrunner, on 27 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

ChrisMac, on 26 April 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

God help us if they find out about Ironman.  

Don't think you have to worry about that for a while yet according to this great article - 'When will Kenya discover triathlon?'

Wow, great find.  That article makes sense, and Greg Welch made a similar reference to the "Running Bodies vs Triathlon Bodies" in his interview on IMTalk.  Lack of swimming and cycling facilities doesn't help them much either.  Just as well Triathlon is an Olympic sport now, I only wish they had Ironman and Sprint distances on offer as well.  A sport like that deserves more than one gold medal!

[speedmeup]

It's not like the rest of the (non Kenyan) elite triathletes are running slow .. check out the run split times from the elite mens Triathlon in Hamburg last year;

http://www.hamburg-t...11/elitemen.pdf

Four of the triathletes (including Aussie Brad Kahlefelt) ran 29 minute 10km - after the swim and bike! .. how quick would they be on a straight up 10km? - you've got to think 28 or better .. That's world class -  I don't reckon the Kenyans would have much of an advantage (if any). Several leading mens triathletes could probably drop triathlon and take up track running if he wanted too - and be successful.

[Colin]

ChrisMac, on 27 April 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

youngrunner, on 27 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Don't think you have to worry about that for a while yet according to this great article - 'When will Kenya discover triathlon?'

Wow, great find.  That article makes sense, and Greg Welch made a similar reference to the "Running Bodies vs Triathlon Bodies" in his interview on IMTalk.

The article bases its conclusions on a sample of the only two guys that were keen enough or brave enough to show up, but then goes on to doubt other studies with more research (even though the doubt is justified).

speedmeup, on 28 April 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

It's not like the rest of the (non Kenyan) elite triathletes are running slow .. check out the run split times from the elite mens Triathlon in Hamburg last year;

http://www.hamburg-t...11/elitemen.pdf

Four of the triathletes (including Aussie Brad Kahlefelt) ran 29 minute 10km - after the swim and bike! .. how quick would they be on a straight up 10km? - you've got to think 28 or better .. That's world class -  I don't reckon the Kenyans would have much of an advantage (if any). Several leading mens triathletes could probably drop triathlon and take up track running if he wanted too - and be successful.

If you believe that any ITU triathletes run 29min or even 30min off the bike then you should also believe that there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. Or considering that Kahlefelt couldn't  even crack top 40 in Sydney recently, we should rather use him in the 10,000m instead of a real runner like St Lawrence

Its a real joke how triathlon doesn't measure their distances accurately - and in fact say that is not important- then go on to accurately record splits with the best of equipment, and do nothing to dispel any claim that the times are inaccurate.

[speedmeup]

i take your point that many ITU courses are not an accurate 10k, but I personally watched Brad win the Melbourne Comm games (accurate course) with a run leg of 30 minnutes . . and enough time at the end to slow down and hug his family, and wave to the crowd. I also watched him race as a junior in his home town, where he holds the local 9.5km (uphill) fun run record in 28 minutes. . .  no slouch.

Why don't they take up track? .. for one thing there's no money in it. Triathletes get paid far better (there's all the gadgets, bikes and gear to promote = sponsorship $) .. Who wants to run track for zero money, when you can do Triathlon and make a good living?. . .that's what it boils down to.

Edited by speedmeup, 29 April 2012 - 12:40 PM.

[Colin]

speedmeup, on 29 April 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

i take your point that many ALL ITU courses are not an accurate 10k,

Fixed

If Brad can wave to crowd, hug and slow down and still run 30min after a swim and 40km cycle at speed and run 9.5km uphill in 28 min in a mere fun run, then he would make much more money as a 27min track runner with much more opportunity on a wider scale. And to say he can do it , makes a mockery of the effort real 27min 10,000m runners like St Lawrence put in.

The bottom line is that all these courses, Melb CG included do not have the same requirement for accuracy as IAAF has for road runs...they simply don't, despite what you are led to believe.

Edited by Colin, 29 April 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[speedmeup]

Lol .. I'm not suggesting in any way that Brad could run 27 minutes (off a 100km training week) that's rediculous. But he can run sub-30 that's for sure ..  he's bloody quick !

My original point being that the run section in elite Triathlon is not a 'gimme' for anyone entering the sport .. by you Kenyan or otherwise.

AND,.. suggesting that the Comm games were fixed? .. Colin do you know something we do not?

Edited by speedmeup, 29 April 2012 - 02:41 PM.

[Colin]

And I'm saying that he can't do it after racing a 1,500m swim and 40km cycle flat out....and hasn't. And if it were possible for him then he has the potential to be a 27min 10km specialist.

Why do you say that I am suggesting the CG was 'fixed'??? How do you infer that?  I clearly said in plain English, that the distances were notr accurately measured because there is no necessity to do so, it is irrelevant and there is no triathlon equivalent of IAAF measurement standards.
Sorry I take a dim view of people in debates twisting what is said.

......, lets go back to talking about the Kenyans.

In my view the WR holder, the OG title holder (in this case deceased) and the current number 1 ranked should all be automatic entrants plus another three for the relevant country...so at least 6 for the Kenyans. Would make for a much better race too.

cheers.

[Uncle Dave]

100% agree with Colin. Would have no faith in Comm Games course being accurate at all.

Is my memory playing tricks on me or was there a famous case in the trials for a previous Olympics where the winning female was being chased down at a rapid rate, with general consensus being that she won by virtue of the fact that the course was short, which denied the girl who placed second, the extra km or so needed to overhaul the winner?

[speedmeup]

Colin you clearly wrote in plain english "Fixed " at the start of your post (followed by a smile face) . . I'll grant you it was in jest, and in regards to the course distance, not the result. I was watching on the day of the race (in a group of Brads supporters from Wagga).. and it looked like a pretty fair race to me.

My original point being, that elite triathletes are no slouches in the run section, and for anyone entering the sport (from a pure running background) would not find it a "gimme'.

We seem to be re-hashing an old thread on a different site - see: http://www.letsrun.c...=1326882&page=2

Apologies youngrunner for hijacking your thread.

Edited by speedmeup, 30 April 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[walker1st]

Colin, on 29 April 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

In my view the WR holder, the OG title holder (in this case deceased) and the current number 1 ranked should all be automatic entrants plus another three for the relevant country...so at least 6 for the Kenyans. Would make for a much better race too.

cheers.

I would also add the recent world champion.

However this policy would need to be applied to every distance and every T&F event, not just the marathon.

From memory at worlds this used to be the case, the actual last world champ had an extra entry, so there were countries with 4 entrants, but I am not sure if this is still the case or how long ago that was.


The situation as it is this year with KEN marathon selection is very cruel and could easily backfire, the runners could be overtrained and overraced,
Individual runners are trying for the last maybe 12 months (when the qualifying period started ?) to run new WR, in an attempt to secure the selection, and none of them will be in top form at the day of olympic marathon is run.
It would not surprise me if KEN is out of medals in mens mara and countries where the selection is much less stressful will take the podium

[Colin]

speedmeup, on 30 April 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Colin you clearly wrote in plain english "Fixed " at the start of your post (followed by a smile face) . .

This is what I 'fixed'...

speedmeup, on 29 April 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

i take your point that many ALL ITU courses are not an accurate 10k,

....your post. i.e. I replaced 'many' with 'all'.

[superflake]

Colin, on 29 April 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

ChrisMac, on 27 April 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

youngrunner, on 27 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Don't think you have to worry about that for a while yet according to this great article - 'When will Kenya discover triathlon?'

Wow, great find.  That article makes sense, and Greg Welch made a similar reference to the "Running Bodies vs Triathlon Bodies" in his interview on IMTalk.

The article bases its conclusions on a sample of the only two guys that were keen enough or brave enough to show up, but then goes on to doubt other studies with more research (even though the doubt is justified).

speedmeup, on 28 April 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

It's not like the rest of the (non Kenyan) elite triathletes are running slow .. check out the run split times from the elite mens Triathlon in Hamburg last year;

http://www.hamburg-t...11/elitemen.pdf

Four of the triathletes (including Aussie Brad Kahlefelt) ran 29 minute 10km - after the swim and bike! .. how quick would they be on a straight up 10km? - you've got to think 28 or better .. That's world class -  I don't reckon the Kenyans would have much of an advantage (if any). Several leading mens triathletes could probably drop triathlon and take up track running if he wanted too - and be successful.

If you believe that any ITU triathletes run 29min or even 30min off the bike then you should also believe that there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. Or considering that Kahlefelt couldn't  even crack top 40 in Sydney recently, we should rather use him in the 10,000m instead of a real runner like St Lawrence

Its a real joke how triathlon doesn't measure their distances accurately - and in fact say that is not important- then go on to accurately record splits with the best of equipment, and do nothing to dispel any claim that the times are inaccurate.

They didn't have too many sub 30's off the bike after Action measured the Sydney Olympic course.

[tucks]

I guess the Kenyans that missed out on the OG will have to settle for big appearance and prize money at Chicago/Berlin instead.

[speedmeup]

Colin, on 30 April 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

speedmeup, on 30 April 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Colin you clearly wrote in plain english "Fixed " at the start of your post (followed by a smile face) . .

This is what I 'fixed'...

speedmeup, on 29 April 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

i take your point that many ALL ITU courses are not an accurate 10k,

....your post. i.e. I replaced 'many' with 'all'.

Gotcha .. perhaps not so plain english.

superflake, on 30 April 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Colin, on 29 April 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

ChrisMac, on 27 April 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

youngrunner, on 27 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Don't think you have to worry about that for a while yet according to this great article - 'When will Kenya discover triathlon?'

Wow, great find.  That article makes sense, and Greg Welch made a similar reference to the "Running Bodies vs Triathlon Bodies" in his interview on IMTalk.

The article bases its conclusions on a sample of the only two guys that were keen enough or brave enough to show up, but then goes on to doubt other studies with more research (even though the doubt is justified).

speedmeup, on 28 April 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

It's not like the rest of the (non Kenyan) elite triathletes are running slow .. check out the run split times from the elite mens Triathlon in Hamburg last year;

http://www.hamburg-t...11/elitemen.pdf

Four of the triathletes (including Aussie Brad Kahlefelt) ran 29 minute 10km - after the swim and bike! .. how quick would they be on a straight up 10km? - you've got to think 28 or better .. That's world class -  I don't reckon the Kenyans would have much of an advantage (if any). Several leading mens triathletes could probably drop triathlon and take up track running if he wanted too - and be successful.

If you believe that any ITU triathletes run 29min or even 30min off the bike then you should also believe that there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. Or considering that Kahlefelt couldn't  even crack top 40 in Sydney recently, we should rather use him in the 10,000m instead of a real runner like St Lawrence

Its a real joke how triathlon doesn't measure their distances accurately - and in fact say that is not important- then go on to accurately record splits with the best of equipment, and do nothing to dispel any claim that the times are inaccurate.

They didn't have too many sub 30's off the bike after Action measured the Sydney Olympic course.

Those times are from the "olden days" before Triathletes became serious !

[Colin]

speedmeup, on 30 April 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

superflake, on 30 April 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

They didn't have too many sub 30's off the bike after Action measured the Sydney Olympic course.

Those times are from the "olden days" before Triathletes became serious !

And yet Whitfield still kicked Kahlefelts butt recently

You are hilarious mate.

[speedmeup]

Colin, on 30 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

speedmeup, on 30 April 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

superflake, on 30 April 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

They didn't have too many sub 30's off the bike after Action measured the Sydney Olympic course.

Those times are from the "olden days" before Triathletes became serious !

And yet Whitfield still kicked Kahlefelts butt recently

You are hilarious mate.

Olympic rankings for London..

http://www.triathlon...ic-men-2012.pdf

Brad is 8th, Whitfield is 37th... I don't see why your intent on bagging an Australian champion Colin. That's pretty sad.

http://www.bradkahlefeldt.com/

Edited by speedmeup, 30 April 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[NKOTB]

Why restrict a country to 3 runners in an event ?  If I win a OG gold medal I like to think I have beaten the best possible field.
I may be wrong, I always thought triathlon is for people who are jack of all (3) trades but master of none, something of a novelty.

New_Kid

[ChrisMac]

NKOTB, on 30 April 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

I may be wrong, I always thought triathlon is for people who are jack of all (3) trades but master of none, something of a novelty.

New_Kid

Lance Armstrong was a pretty handy cyclist, for a triathlete.

Edited by ChrisMac, 30 April 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[langswm]

Here's a little known fact. Just reading an article this morning in the International Herald Tribune. All 6 (male and female) of the Kenyan Olympic squad are from a town called Iten, which sits 2400m above the Great Rift Valley. The town has a TOTAL of 4000 people (of which about 1/4 are runners). How's that for elites marathoners per head stats!

[Emrun]

Iten is something of an altitude training mecca for distance runners and there are quite a few dedicated camps up there.  I would say it's not so much a case of them all being from Iten but that is where they now base themselves for training purposes.

Having said that, there is no doubt that the Kenyans can certainly boast more elite distance runners per capita than just about any other country.  There's a joke that the Kenyan Olympic officials just pick the team on their way through to the airport to fly out for the games.

[youngrunner]

An interesting articleon Ethiopia's version of Iten - the town of Bekoji.

Letsrun.com describe it as 'may be even more impressive [than Iten], as it is where Kenenisa Bekele (3 Olympic golds), Tirunesh Dibaba (2 Olympic golds), Derartu Tulu (2 Olympic golds), and Fatuma Roba (1 Olympic gold) were all born. Lengthy Guardian profile on the town and its unheralded coach Sentayehu Eshetu. A movie on the town - "Town of Runners" - comes out later this month.

[ChrisMac]

I heard a great podcast this morning that might interest anyone following this thread.  It was Marathon Talk episode 122, interviewing Toni Reavis.
It starts off by interviewing Jerry Rothwell, producer of "Town of Runners" mentioned by youngrunner above.  He then goes on to discuss the politics of Patrick Makau being left out of the Kenyan Olympic Squad.  The story there is that he was told he already had the nod he was in the Oympic squad, so planned to pull out of London Marathon early to save himself.  Oops!   And finally they interview Toni Reavis, the American Voice of Marathon.  That guy was fascinating.  His take on the state of our sport, particularly in the structure of the administration ("Our sport is being driven by administrators, not sports promotors") was new to me, but clearly articulated the problems faced by dwindling prize money for the pros, and the puzzling selection issues around the world.   He also discusses the Kenyan dominance in some depth.   Anyway, I think all runners will enjoy this:
http://www.marathont...toni_reavis.php

[BEN-HUR]

ChrisMac, on 24 May 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

I heard a great podcast this morning that might interest anyone following this thread.  It was Marathon Talk episode 122, interviewing Toni Reavis.
It starts off by interviewing Jerry Rothwell, producer of "Town of Runners" mentioned by youngrunner above.  He then goes on to discuss the politics of Patrick Makau being left out of the Kenyan Olympic Squad.  The story there is that he was told he already had the nod he was in the Oympic squad, so planned to pull out of London Marathon early to save himself.  Oops!   And finally they interview Toni Reavis, the American Voice of Marathon.  That guy was fascinating.  His take on the state of our sport, particularly in the structure of the administration ("Our sport is being driven by administrators, not sports promotors") was new to me, but clearly articulated the problems faced by dwindling prize money for the pros, and the puzzling selection issues around the world.   He also discusses the Kenyan dominance in some depth.   Anyway, I think all runners will enjoy this:
http://www.marathont...toni_reavis.php

Thanks - some parts of the podcast was interesting.

For those who didn't catch it, the "Town Of Runners" film was discussed here. I doubt it will be publicly screened in Australia but there is a post in the thread which provides links on how/where to buy the film when it is released.

[Preecey]

I can see how this can happen...I am reading the book "Running with the Kenyans" at the moment and he talks about how at the Kenyan Cross-country Campionships last year, the current male and female 5k and 10k world champions were running and none of the four could crack it for a top 10 finish. The depth is staggering. Also explains why the Kenyan runners of the day seem to come and go so quicky when compared to Western runners!!!

[adr1an]

Rumours are floating around the internets that Moses Mosop will be withdrawing due to injury and a replacement will be announced soon. Oh the drama.

[Easy Tiger]

The other contenders will be hoping they leave Geoffrey Mutai out again.

[adr1an]

Emmanuel Mutai has been picked.

Apparently Makau and Geoffrey Mutai didn't explain why they dropped out of their last races.

Was it g Mutai that said he already had a deal with aths Kenya to be picked for London?

[ChrisMac]

adr1an, on 12 June 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Emmanuel Mutai has been picked.

Apparently Makau and Geoffrey Mutai didn't explain why they dropped out of their last races.

Was it g Mutai that said he already had a deal with aths Kenya to be picked for London?

It was Makau according to Marathon Talk, but I can't find any other reference to it.  Here is an interesting version of events from his management:
http://allafrica.com...1206130474.html