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Running Twice A DayNewbie training


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#1 kurupt2020

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:50 PM

Hi guys im new to the running scene and have just started running about a week ago , I am currently running 5ks every morning my PB currently
is 27:30 , I do my 5 k run first thing in the morning , I wanted to get advice on doing a 2nd run in the evening possibly another 5 k run or even abit shorter
I find that i am keen for a 2nd run later in the evening . Is this healthy ? Should I just stick to the one run or running twice a day is not recommended ? Is it over excercising ?
And i know some will suggest why dont i just go for a longer run in the morning but due to time restraints eg getting back and getting ready for work i only have time to do a 5 k run , im up at 5am every morning so getting up earlier isnt an option . So opinions on running twice a day ?

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#2 Duf

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

Welcome to running...tis a wonderful journey to be on. I'm so very excited for you.

Part of that wonderful journey is slowly building up your training and allowing your body time to adapt to the new workload. It is way too easy to just keep building things up cause it feels so right but this often ends in injury and no running for extended periods of time.

You've gone from no running to ???7 days a week, 5km a day....that is a big ask for your body. As a minimum I wouldn't be adding a second run yet.

It is important to note that allowing some recovery time can be just as beneficial as a great training run. Really tune into your body and listen to what it is telling you. For me, each time I've started too enthusiastically it's ended in tears from injury and then running time-out. Enjoy the process of training and aim to be a long term runner.

Other things to consider:
- you need to build a base first before you can add speed, so concentrate on having time on your legs and don't make each run a time trial.
- each 3-4 weeks have a reduced run week as recovery. as much as you might not want to do this your body needs some down time.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

#3 4range

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:14 PM

I agree with Duf.

I remember having similar feelings, returning from a run, only to want to set out again after 5 minutes, its a great feeling, but I reckon it's a confidence trick!

If you read up on training programs, they all talk about a day or two off, and a light week here & there.

If you are as stubborn as I am, you wont learn from the mistakes of others & end up hurt & frustrated.

Let me tell you, it is an ugly situation when you sit at home with your brain giving you a guilt trip, telling you that you are good to go, but your body screaming abuse at you every time you put weight on your feet.

Dont do it, take it easy!

we'll see you on the road / trail.

#4 shark

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

Hi Kurupt

Also - welcome.

I agree as above that 7 days a week is a bit much.  If you want a long inninings in this game you need some rest too.

Having said that, running twice a day is fine - lot's of very good runners do that.  Just need to ensure you get some rest from running.  I've been running seriously for ~30 years.  I like to run 4 times a week.  I never run more than three days in a row.  Some of my running days I double up - maybe with a gym session where I include some treadmill work, or maybe a ride.  When building for a marathon, if I have time I'll do two runs in a day - perhaps 20k in the morning and another 10-15k late afternoon - never a problem.  It is easier on the body than running a 30k+ run.

good luck

s

#5 johnnyboyrun

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

As a beginner i wouldnt run more than 5 times a week and wouldnt even entertain the thought of doing any double runs... first gind  a good solid program and just stick to it the best you can!

#6 kurupt2020

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

Thanks guys i will take this all on board an implement your suggestions , i will hold off on the 2nd run and just concentrate on building a base and
work from there , thanks again what a great forum this is for a newbie !
cheers

#7 rohan

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:27 AM

Search for some running programs online that have training schedules for people training for 5km, 10km or whatever you want to do.  

Note how the programs are structured.  No-one specifies the same type of run day in and day out.  eg. one day will be a lot longer, some will be shorter and faster, some easy etc.

#8 Running Gal

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:16 AM

You'd probably be better first trying to slowly increase your running distance/time in a run than adding a second one. Also  like others suggested, as a beginner is probably better not go over 5 days for now.. If your itching to do something for a 6th day, go do something different swim, bike etc Keep 1 or 2 rest days to let your body recover or you will regret it

#9 Harryo

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:02 AM

I occasionally run twice in a day but never 7 days a week

harry

#10 kurupt2020

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:48 AM

Thanks all for your input very much appreciated , will be taking a rest day tomorrow and cutting back to 5 days a week .

#11 Brendan90

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

Agree with all of the above posters.

It's so easy to get excited and want to go out and do too much. I've fallen victim a few times and the resulting injury or tendonitis etc. ends up spoiling the whole program and I end up doing far less than I should have been doing anyway.

But welcome to running! It's great to see your enthusiasm.

#12 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:06 PM

Hi kurrupt2020.

I also agree with previous replys in not running over 5 days per week.

I have been running for 14 years now and I dont think it even dawned on me to have a 2nd run on the same day until about 5 years after starting.

I recently compiled some stats for about the last 11 years of my running logs up to the 1ST JULY this year  which may interest you.


(10 years 8 months 3 days)        3900 days

Kilometres Run in this Period     32179km

Average Kilometres Run Per Day 8-25km

Number of Days Run     2504   (64.2%)

Number of Days Rested    1306   (35.8%)

Run Twice in One Day 83 Times (2.13%)

No of Times Run More than 60mins   681Times (17.47%)


So as you can see from above running twice has never really been a priority with an average of about 7 doubleup runs per year over 11 years.

I have however put together two running streaks but not until I had been running for 9 years.

In 2008/2009 I ran for 500 days straight.

I am currently on my longest streak now having run every day since 1Jan 2011, so I will finish this year having run 731 days in a row.

I don't necessarily recommend it but if you listen to your body (& my runners mentality that has taken over) it can eventually be done.

Being a regular Marathon Runner a lot of my recovery runs have been between 1km & 4km for the week following.

Well I hope you enjoy your success in bringing your 5km times down.

But at the end of the day listen to your body as it will tell you how much and how long you can run relatively injury free.

#13 Bellthorpe

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:12 PM

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 01 December 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:


Average Kilometres Run Per Day 8-25km


That's not an average. That's a range.

#14 adr1an

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:32 PM

View PostBellthorpe, on 01 December 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 01 December 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Average Kilometres Run Per Day 8-25km


That's not an average. That's a range.

is it meant to be 8.25km?

#15 run2work

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:24 PM

A different view perhaps, as someone that runs twice a day and has been doing that for years. Four days a week I run twice, one day I run twice or three times, then  over the weekend I will usually run once (long). The runs are fairly short mostly and the morning run is really slow. Lots of showering, which is nice too (albeit expensive and wasteful).

So k2, I think you could run in the afternoon if it was initially short and slow, then gradually built up over time. I think a day off per week is still essential for rest and regeneration. I actually think a 5km and 2km (slow) run in the day is easier on the body than 7km in one session, especially if it is too fast for the body to adapt to the physical stress.

It is what works for me anyway. It is not for everyone, but could be worth a try.

r2w

#16 Jogger

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:41 PM

Quote

im up at 5am every morning so getting up earlier isnt an option
you could get up 15mins earlier - that's surely wouldn't hurt ?
you'd easily be able to up it by a couple of km.
runners do crazy shit like that ... you'd fit right in.

#17 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:59 PM

View Postadr1an, on 02 December 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

View PostBellthorpe, on 01 December 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 01 December 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Average Kilometres Run Per Day 8-25km


That's not an average. That's a range.

is it meant to be 8.25km?

I'm a tad confused as well   adr1an.

Had I wanted to list my range, then that figure would be 44km not 8-25km.
(ie  Highest Km run in the period listed 45km -   minus Lowest Km run in the period 1Km.)

So 8-25km is my daily average km's run per day, over the 3900 days.

But if you wanted to calculate it over only the days that I ran in this period ( ie  2504 days ) then my average for actual running days is about 12-85km.

So given the almost 66% figure of days run, you could say

that on average I have been Running     12-37km on DAY 1
12-37km on DAY 2
   & then I have a rest day on    DAY 3.

So this cycle has continued for almost 11 years on average.

Rest assured K2020 none of this affects the fact that I only run twice on the same day 2-13% of the said period.

#18 johnnyboyrun

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:30 AM

Wow. Another extremely simple thread made complicated.....

#19 Bellthorpe

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 02 December 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:


Had I wanted to list my range, then that figure would be 44km not 8-25km.
(ie  Highest Km run in the period listed 45km -   minus Lowest Km run in the period 1Km.)


Nope. A range would have a dash in it. So your range would be 1-45

Quote


So 8-25km is my daily average km's run per day, over the 3900 days.

Nope. An average would be one number. Such as 12.

#20 BOD

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:44 PM

DESTINATION_43

If you were to follow the convention of using a decimal point instead of a hyphen when stating your daily average, you would placate both the confused and the cantankerous.

For example, the 8-25 would be best restated as 8.25.  (32179 divided by 3900).

#21 Duf

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 01 December 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Hi kurrupt2020.

I also agree with previous replys in not running over 5 days per week.

I have been running for 14 years now and I dont think it even dawned on me to have a 2nd run on the same day until about 5 years after starting.

I recently compiled some stats for about the last 11 years of my running logs up to the 1ST JULY this year  which may interest you.


(10 years 8 months 3 days)    3900 days

Kilometres Run in this Period 32179km

Average Kilometres Run Per Day 8-25km

Number of Days Run 2504   (64.2%)

Number of Days Rested    1306   (35.8%)

Run Twice in One Day 83 Times (2.13%)

No of Times Run More than 60mins   681Times (17.47%)


So as you can see from above running twice has never really been a priority with an average of about 7 doubleup runs per year over 11 years.

I have however put together two running streaks but not until I had been running for 9 years.

In 2008/2009 I ran for 500 days straight.

I am currently on my longest streak now having run every day since 1Jan 2011, so I will finish this year having run 731 days in a row.

I don't necessarily recommend it but if you listen to your body (& my runners mentality that has taken over) it can eventually be done.

Being a regular Marathon Runner a lot of my recovery runs have been between 1km & 4km for the week following.

Well I hope you enjoy your success in bringing your 5km times down.

But at the end of the day listen to your body as it will tell you how much and how long you can run relatively injury free.

I confess to thinking this is amazing....especially the 731 days in a row
(wait.....wrong thread)

#22 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:58 PM

View PostBOD, on 03 December 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

DESTINATION_43

If you were to follow the convention of using a decimal point instead of a hyphen when stating your daily average, you would placate both the confused and the cantankerous.

For example, the 8-25 would be best restated as 8.25.  (32179 divided by 3900).

To respect johnnyboyrun's wishes above , I think I'll just leave it as is.

(The point being made that only a low percentage of my running days involves a second run on the same day. I think that was my whole intention to contributing to this topic.)

#23 UnfitnessFanatic

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

I run twice a day fairly frequently. Though generally they are both easy I will sometimes run easy in the afternoon when I have done a speed set that morning. I haven't been running for as long as some people here but I have been able to do so without my body breaking up until now. It can be done but I wouldn't recommend it for the the original poster so soon after starting.  I would agree with the post a little back about getting up 15min earlier. Lots of us get out there before 5, I find it gives me a big boost of energy for the day. It is tough though traveling to work in nsw and living in qld. Getting up at 4 (3 qld) is a little hard at times. But if you want to improve you just do it when you can.

#24 Quinkin

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

I've rarely run doubles, and it wasn't until I'd be running for over two years. Certainly if you are going to run twice a day, one of the runs should be easy, not both hard. To be honest I think you might get more benefit out of adding a long run, say 8-10km than two 5km runs.

#25 kurupt2020

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:28 PM

Thanks for the feedback , I have taken to doing 2 days on and one day rest , in the evening  i am doing core work and upper body workout  . My times have
improved im now doing 5ks consistantly low 27's ( ran 26:50 this morning new pb)  and my recovery after the run has improved aswell , Im feeling good and alot more comfortabe with the 5k distance , Im going to start mixing the distance up and throw in a few 3.5 k runs and use this to do some fartlek training and also start to use this distance as a "rest run " on my rest week . Im being mindful of rest and the need for recovery .

#26 richardegg

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:14 PM

Run twice a day? Ok, BUT ensure you have rest days. Other wise injury of some kind will be inevitable (especially if you are a beginner).

#27 Supersam1979

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

I can only impart what I was told by several who should know a thing or two about this running malarkey including Bruce Fordyce, Norrie Williamson and Tim Noakes. The general consensus in conversations with them was that unless you are able to run in excess of 130km a week then you should not be looking at running twice a day.

Majority of normal punters running  the standard 100k or less per week would be better off running their existing miles harder and faster than to run more.

Good luck in your training.

#28 Davo

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:31 PM

Why not use your time available in the second session to do some cross training, such as weights, yoga or pilates instead of actual running.

#29 DrJH

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:11 AM

Well I disagree with most of the above. We don't know anything about your age, general health, type of work, previous activities or running surfaces. If you want to run twice do it. If you get tired run easy. Recovery is over rated. Most of us have probably 23 hours in the day to recover. I find the more often you run and the fitter you get so your ability to recover improves.

If you want to run better you have to run faster more often. Improve nutrition, surfaces or footwear to achieve this, don't take days off. You never discover what you're capable of if you don't push the limits.

#30 bingo01

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:17 AM

Interesting reading - something I was thinking about myself.

I have been running for about 18 months and often do about 7 km in the morning.  At the end of the day, I am getting itching to go out again.  Not fast mind you (or far) as I read in a magazine that if you cant make up the distance (or time) in a long run, to break it up i.e run twice a day.

I am training for a good year of half marathons (4 in total), but can only get one long run in every 10 or say days due to work and family commitments.  But I could possible do more 10-13km runs if I break these up into 6-7km and then 5-6km in a day.

I am aiming for 35km at the moment, and will try to extend this to 45km

Any thoughts?

#31 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:48 AM

View Postbingo01, on 18 December 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Interesting reading - something I was thinking about myself.

I have been running for about 18 months and often do about 7 km in the morning.  At the end of the day, I am getting itching to go out again.  Not fast mind you (or far) as I read in a magazine that if you cant make up the distance (or time) in a long run, to break it up i.e run twice a day.

I am training for a good year of half marathons (4 in total), but can only get one long run in every 10 or say days due to work and family commitments.  But I could possible do more 10-13km runs if I break these up into 6-7km and then 5-6km in a day.

I am aiming for 35km at the moment, and will try to extend this to 45km

Any thoughts?
Hi Bingo01, You're clearly getting the running bug, by setting some good goals and wanting to run a second time later in the day as this may better suit your lifestyle.

What I've done below shows a possible 52km running week with three rest days each week. Obviously I havn't included your long run which you would fit in once every 10-14 days.

I know this is a few more km than you are thinking about and may not be for you but the  6-7km seems to be something you are comfortable with.

BUT WHAT IM SUGGESTING IS TO WRITE UP YOUR OWN PLAN FOR THE DAYS AND TIMES THAT SUIT YOU.

By planning your running week and sticking to it, will ensure your body gets used to the extra mileage you are trying to achieve.

In my early running days, my biggest influence was my trusty foolscap page where I would record my monthly runs.

Instead of saying "Oh its too hot to run today" I would look at it as another notch on my running sheet.

Much the same as a cold rainy wintery night where you might say "Oh I'll do it tomorrow".

My foolscap pages now tally 171 (Months) and I know I would have missed 100's of runs over the years without its direction.

All the best for your half marathons. Post back on this thread later next year to let us know how you went.

___________________________________________________________

  

Monday    REST
Tuesday 7km morning   6km afternoon
Wednesday   7km morning   6km afternoon
Thursday    7km morning   6km afternoon
Friday   REST
Saturday   REST
Sunday   7km morning   6km afternoon

#32 bingo01

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:54 AM

Thanks for the info Destination

I have actually made a 'roster' for my running.  I can make it up - knowing when I (and husband) is working, and can therefore can plan my runs around that.  When I trained for Run Melbourne last year, I ticked off each day as it happened (or crossed out as the case might have been!) and it was certainly good way to keep me 'accountable' for my training.  Since then the wheels have fallen off big time and I have lost the inspiration....
But a training plan is the way...and I will make another (once my current one (a training plan for Tough Mudder) finishes). I will then try to encorporate a few double runs during the week (and still plan for my longer runs every 10 or so days)
I