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First marathon in July 2019


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#1 nathaniel2518

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 04:08 PM

Just after advice re building up the kms to marathon length training. I've entered GCM19.

A brief background is that i just ran the p2p. Longest training run was around 2hrs 20 flatish. I usually run about 20-30km a week and got up to about 30-40kms a week with a few gym sessions as well. The p2p was tough. I took 2hr 50 but it is obviously uphill.  This years training for the p2p i held back a bit and it really worked and was pretty fresh on the day.

i feel ready to start training but have noticed some overtraining symptoms getting closer to an event over the last 3 years. Issues are tiredness, leg soreness inc achillies tendonitis (which i can manage) and injuries that creep up.  Doesn't sound too uncommon i guess but i do go slowly and never feel like i really get the best out of myself or get faster. Diet is ok - i certainly get the calories in :) - i maybe a bit heavy.

I guess i'm in a bit of a catch 22. Trying to build up the kms slowly, lose some weight, go a bit faster but then get tired and sore when i do and so i have a break - and just stay at the same level.  

I do love my long sunday run though!

any advice would be great.

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#2 dantan

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 04:31 PM

I have never run a full Marathon, so I am not the best person to listen to.

I have flirted with the idea of running a full Marathon.

I have run several Half Marathon events over the years.

I run 40kms or so per week every week.

I feel as though 50-60km per week every week should be the absolute minimum requirement for at least six months, to get the body somewhere near right and ready for a full Marathon.

If I ever do feel like taking the step-up to the full Marathon distance, I shall be looking to run about 70kms and aim to run around 3 hours and 55 minutes or better.

#3 Jindalee

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 05:10 PM

For my first marathon I looked online for a marathon training plan. I found and followed a 16 weeks plan and it got me safely through the marathon. I aimed to finish and not for time and it was a trail marathon so time wasnít fast 4h35mins.

#4 BogFrog

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 05:33 PM

I've only done one Marathon but am keen as mustard to do another once I've ticked off that other goal. Anyway, from my (limited) experience and observations, if you are a road runner, I think that strength training is important (running specific strength & stability) as it will help you hold form when you get tired at the end of those longer runs. This means fewer niggles and injuries.

An observation - Mr BogFrog has been building up his triathlon training and there's a pattern - build, OhMyGodThisIsAwesome build, too tired, fitness drops, build back up, OhMyGodThisIsAwesome build, shattered, do nothing prince wash repeat.  I think there would be a much more consistent improvement if it was planned better. But he is enjoying it!

Edited by BogFrog, 04 December 2018 - 05:34 PM.


#5 Seano

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 06:28 PM

this is very rough, & i am not a coach.

over the next 10 weeks, i'd be building our base fitness up with consistent slow running.
Medium length regular runs of about 6-14km.
As many as you can observing every secnd session being a slow recovery.

Then i'd start a marathon program.

it goes without saying the most important session is the long run, & the second most important  is the mid week sorta long run.
(Doing anything else before these two would be like putting tinsel up before the tree)
if you do just these two, you'll be able to finish oK.
i'm not saying you should do this, but if you are limited to 40km per week, it makes things hard to have a well rounded program.

of course, the more you run, the better & stronger you'll be able to run.

The things about GCM that may not be glaringly obvious are
-  the pancake flatness of it does not necesssarily make it easy. The repetitive motion can leave people cramping towards the end. You need to train for a flat course.
- it gets hot quickly after about 2 1/2 - 3 hours of running. Many runners coming from southern states in the middle of winter who have trained in winter struggle as not acclimitised. (Callum Hawkins @ Comm Games).

#6 Eagle

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 08:22 PM

Seano
Very wise and sensible advice. Nice tree and tinsel analogy - couldn't agree more. Build the base for as long as possible before trying anything else. No speed work etc during the base building phase that can go as long as you like although the law of demising  returns applies. That is as you get fitter then base building has less outcome for the same effort.

No real way to tell when you have arrived at that point except doing regular time trials.

Edited by Eagle, 04 December 2018 - 08:23 PM.


#7 HeadlampRunner

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:42 PM

I agree with the others.  In the lead up you need to know what will be reasonable on the day.  A time trial is vital for that.

On the subject of Gold Coast it is not just those from the Southern states that suffer in the heat.  I'd suggest you do some of your training in the hottest part of the day and maybe wear more than you normally do so that you can acclimatise.  On race day make sure you remember to drink (I take a sip at every drink table and tip the remainder on my head).

The course is pretty flat so make sure some of your long runs are flat too in order to get used to the repeated strain on the flat.

#8 nathaniel2518

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 08:59 AM

Thanks guys
Very helpful. Well put BogFrog - sounds exactly like me!  

I think, if all goes well, i can get up to about 35-40kms a week and love the longer runs.

We lived in Brissy for 5 years but i was a mountain biker back then. Did the odd enduro/50km so i'm aware what the heat can do - but it was 4-5 hours on a bike where you can roll. Unfortunately I'm not acclimatised anymore so 22 degrees is hot!!

The hard part for me will be diet (given i want to lose 5kgs while doing this), getting tired as i do longer kms and managing through niggles esp tendonitis.

I did a 16km on sunday through some steep trails and felt pretty good - 2 hours all up - and wasn't shattered so i cautiously happy with my start.

Edited by nathaniel2518, 11 December 2018 - 03:05 PM.


#9 nathaniel2518

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 03:43 PM

So i'm 2.5 months in and going quite well - with the help of a great physio.  Still only up to about 30km a week. Sunday long runs are about 1hr 20 at this stage. About to up them a bit to 1hr 30ish.

lost 1kilo then ate 2 family blocks of caramello chocolate.

42km is quite daunting.  4 months to go.

#10 David C

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 06:54 PM

View Postnathaniel2518, on 05 March 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

So i'm 2.5 months in and going quite well - with the help of a great physio.  Still only up to about 30km a week. Sunday long runs are about 1hr 20 at this stage. About to up them a bit to 1hr 30ish.

lost 1kilo then ate 2 family blocks of caramello chocolate.

42km is quite daunting.  4 months to go.
Nathaniel,

Great to read that you are still going.  Well done.

David

#11 DrinksRunner

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 07:50 AM

If you can you should try and get into the gold coast a few days prior to the event to acclimatise to the heat.
I still faded a bit in my marathon there but not as bad as others.
I got there approx 3 days prior to the event and its more the warmness in the early morning out jogging/shuffling that your not used to, but after a few days it gets better.
And coming from Tassie where its frezing cold in  july in the mornings  its a big difference.

#12 nathaniel2518

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 10:09 AM

View PostDrinksRunner, on 06 March 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

If you can you should try and get into the gold coast a few days prior to the event to acclimatise to the heat.
I still faded a bit in my marathon there but not as bad as others.
I got there approx 3 days prior to the event and its more the warmness in the early morning out jogging/shuffling that your not used to, but after a few days it gets better.
And coming from Tassie where its frezing cold in  july in the mornings  its a big difference.

Fingers crossed for 19 degree Gold Coast day!!!

#13 nathaniel2518

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 01:16 PM

A running friend said i could probably change two of my weekly runs from 7-8 km slow to 5x1km etc then even do some 200 metres on another day.  i am a real creature of habit and do two lunch time 40 min runs just to get out of the office - no real goals other than to get a bit further. Long term achillies tendonitis (which seems under control) has put me off running faster as things tend to go wrong.

Just interested in peoples thoughts - given i just want to finish (in roughly 4.30), now i have a few kms in the bank do i do some faster stuff?

Edited by nathaniel2518, 06 March 2019 - 01:21 PM.


#14 DrinksRunner

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 02:13 PM

My lunch runs are usually easy if i fell crap.
sometimes i try and aim for avg paces or avg HR
e.g not over 180-Age (MAF) or jsut randomly pick 150AVG or 130AVG
or try and aim for sub 5:00/5:15 / 5:30 pace

I need to have a plan to do some speed work, otherwise will just be easy/moderate run
3 x 2km was good.
4-5 x 1km on 1km off is good too for a lunch run
If you want to do shorter stuff it depends if there is a oval nearby to use or 400s or 200s etc.

Start off doing 1 speed session a week, then see how you go with 2.
I usually only do 1 session plus park run.

#15 darg75

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 09:35 AM

Hey Nathaniel, nice work on your build up.

I answer your question with a question (which is a d*** move usually...).

If youíre adding in speed work, whatís your reasoning?

Any positive answer you give is legit - Maybe the running is getting dull and you need to spice it up?  Maybe you want to work on form?  Maybe your goal is changing a little from just finish to finish with a specific time?  All legit.

If your answer is because someone else said to, then Iíd say NO!

Personally I enjoy one or two quicker sessions a week.  It helps me feel like Iím getting somewhere.  Theyíre harder so the can be quite satisfying once done.  They can also be kinda social as often I do these with a couple of mates.  I kept them in for my last marathon build up and I think they helped.

On the flip side of the speed session is being careful to allow recovery.  I feel like youíre much more likely to pick up an annoying niggle (or worse) running fast than you are running slow.

I chuck my 2c in with Seanos post from December.  I tried out midweek long runs along with weekend ones last year and Iím converted.  They made me feel fit, like marathon fit.  Bigger time commitment (and mental commitment too!!) but really worthwhile.

#16 SkyChariot

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 10:04 AM

Hey Nathaniiel, agree pretty much with Dargs above post. Everyone is different, but don't do things just because someone else says you should, you have to work out what works best for you, with your body, your goals, you injury issues and your available time. My 5c worth would be that if you can get the long slow runs in, so you have no worries with the distance, then you can play around with speed if you want to. Fit first, fancy later. Think again about what your goals are, and if you think you are on track and feeling good. You said you are a creature of habit. If what you are doing is working for you, then don't change things because someone else thinks you should. They can do their own thing.

Edited by SkyChariot, 09 March 2019 - 10:06 AM.


#17 JXT

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 04:27 PM

Firstly, good luck and enjoy the process of training for your first marathon. Secondly, my Ďadviceí is to be taken with the requisite grains of salt.
That said, Iím very much of the opinion that 200s and 400s are of little to no use in marathon training. Iíve used 1km repeats in the past but have my best results with marathon-pace workouts - 3km, 5km or 10km repeats. Iíd build to 8x3km with a 1km recovery or 5x5km or 2x10km with a 1.5km recovery.
Iíd infrequently try a 5km or 10km time trial to gauge fitness but this was the only faster-than-MP running Iíd do.


#18 nathaniel2518

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 12:17 PM

awesome advice - thanks guys.   ultimately the only reason i was considering some faster sessions was because i think i've been getting slower and lazier and my form is suffering as a result.  glutes aren't firing and upper back seems to be spasming a little.

BUT because i need my achillies to recover i have to stay away from faster - and after the advice here i think i'll stick to what i have been doing. i like the sound of longer repeats and even a mid week long run!

#19 SkyChariot

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 02:26 PM

Hi Nathaniel, Perhaps if you got onto the grass, or onto some trail for your long runs, then that would change the way you are running. If you are just pounding pavement the whole time, that can cause your form to get lazy. Your body will work a little different if you are on grass or dirt or sand. You will need to think a bit more about how you are running on different surfaces, and pick your feet up more
Y

Edited by SkyChariot, 15 March 2019 - 02:27 PM.


#20 alilypad

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:58 AM

Hi Nathaniel,
Congratulations on signing up to take on the challenge.  The training will all be worthwhile and you will love it!!

I can only pass on advice I got when I first started out.
Don't increase your weekly kms too much too quickly, never by more than 10%.
Run to a programme but be prepared to be flexible, life gets in the way sometimes.
It's your first marathon, train to get to the start and run to finish!  Don't worry so much about time.

When you train for your second you can give yourself a time goal! ;)

CR helped me enormously when I started so you're on the right track already!  SkyChariot has summed it up well.

Best of luck at GCAM!  Look forward to reading about your experience!!

Edited by alilypad, 19 March 2019 - 08:59 AM.


#21 SkyChariot

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:33 PM

Yeah, alilypad said something really important there, its your first marathon, and you need to enjoy it and focus on being fit to start and run the distance. I don't know anyone whos first marathon was their best marathon, unless it was the only one they ever ran! You will learn heaps. But you will learn even more just from day to day in the lead up. So focus on enjoying that as well.

#22 nathaniel2518

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 02:47 PM

After loads of physio sessions and glute and TFL exercises i finally had a good run. 13km and enjoyable - went a little too fast because everything clicked... so i'll keep an eye on that but stoked.

#23 SkyChariot

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 04:18 PM

^^^^That is good news! I hope its all smooth sailing from now on.

#24 NavyDiverJB

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:11 PM

All great advice for a very cool try mate. Clearly your already feeling your legs, lungs and heart all improve as you have.
I am jealous as your first M is a PB.  After PBs get better easily as you know your ability and the routine. I am floundering in a time zone I am sure I can beat but seem stuck with. First is ubber cool, next four years is even better as your PBs crash. The main obstacle is always your own minds ability to believe. You have already crossed that barrier by training for it. The 42 is always in the bag once you have done your preparation I think. Enjoy it.

#25 nathaniel2518

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 04:33 PM

Just a quick update... i haven't been getting the kms in i wanted because i'm still working on glutes firing. Really struggling. As a result i get pretty stuffed after 90mins. I'm still pretty positive though. With 8 weeks or so to go my longest run is still only 2 hours mins/15km trail run and i've only been running 3-4 times a week - around 30kms a week - although i had a random 52km week running over to wineglass bay twice. #trashed.  

I'm aiming for 4hrs 30min and think i'll be fine with being out there for that long - i actually like the thought (mountain bike endurance background). i don't want to speak too soon though!!  i just want to run the whole way!!

#26 NavyDiverJB

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 02:26 PM

Getting a physio to check your running form and foot fall might be worth a shot. I really struggled until a over pronation issue I did not know about was fixed by simply changing to a stability shoe which worked removing several niggles in more than one area of my body.

Shoe shops are not all equal and do not assume if they are comfortable that's all that's important to avoid injuries and issues. See my error in shoes on this thread

I was given a few hip exercises by a cool physio which work to help hold running form when I get fatigued. IF you get some to video you running at the start and also the end of your long run you will most likely see a significant difference in your running form. Core strength - planking, Side planking, hand stands,  wall waking - upside down and hip strengthening  via simply raising one knee to my side and bring it to my front 10 times and the reverse of this raising knee to my front and rotating to the side for both legs are part of my daily cool down routine. If your in Melbourne The Running Shop Clifton Hill is physio like in its view of shoe fitting and more importantly your foot fall in the shoes that fit you.

#27 nathaniel2518

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 12:56 PM

Had a great run yesterday - 18km in just over 2 hours. Really tried to slow down. Had a bit of a breakthrough re tight hammies and glutes not firing with my physio. Was able to adjust slightly and run further. I was stoked until i got a bit of under foot soreness - yikes.

Just on the pace... i was very comfortable running at 6.30min/km but it seems soooo slow. i did purposely run the first 5 kms ultra slow to warm up but stayed around that pace. It does allow me to go alot further. Should that be my aim for the marathon? i'll be out there for ever.  i've done a half in 1.59 and a 10 in 50 - I'm as fit but not running nearly as fast as then due to glutes.

#28 NavyDiverJB

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 01:51 PM

My guess is you'll get the best pace guide from the marathon for the next one. Honestly the hit of 30-35km mark when our bodies fuel reserves are exhausted mean you need to pace the whole race to avoid crashing into the wall to hard, Its all about the average pace,

Loads of prediction tools exist. Its your body that determines the outcome of course. See how comfortable 6min pace is over the next long run perhaps.

Edited by NavyDiverJB, 06 May 2019 - 01:53 PM.


#29 SkyChariot

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 05:37 PM

Slow and steady sounds good. It gives you a base to keep building on. Sounds like you are doing a pretty good job of getting yourself to the start. Just enjoy the lead up, keep listening to your body and adjusting, and when you toe the line, you should be in a good place to run a good race. I wouldn't be worried about the slower pace. Too many people want to be fast without putting in the ground work. Remember the hair and the tortoise! A steady pace if you have the fitness, and you should be running past a few that went too fast early for the fitness they have.

#30 nathaniel2518

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:16 PM

Had a really good 9km run on Friday and got the glutes going. Then on sunday did a 2.7 km fun run with my daughter then took off for my 24km/2.5 hrs run. Had one stiff hammy by 8km and my achillies tendonitis started to play up by 12km. This seemed to cause everything to stiffen. Felt like cliff young looks. Managed to hobble to 20km in 2 hours. Absolutely fine today. Mind great. Not tired. Legs not sore but stiff achilllies.  Have to concentrate more on my achillies exercises and stretching i think. Starting to get worried about getting enough kms in with 6 weeks to go.  Post 2 hours is hard for me... maybe i just need to run it really fast :)

Edited by nathaniel2518, 20 May 2019 - 01:18 PM.


#31 Eagle

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:33 PM

Nath
No matter how much training you do and how long before you start that training before the event that that thought 'Have I done enough' is normal. It is okay to think that but resist the temptation to try and 'make anything up' by ramping up the distance etc. Just consider that you can only do what you can. Get to the start line just accepting that you have done what you have done and make the best of that on the day.

Keep the updates coming.

#32 NavyDiverJB

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:19 AM

I love running fast. A nice helpful gent mentioned it is restraint that's needed to get the best average speed. I can run 1:30 1/2 times but die on the second half making my average look average despite the fast part :)  I used "restraint" on Sunday but failed due to lube! Use it between your legs and under your arms. I missed one spot at 5am in the dark in a tent on Sunday morning and paid very dearly for it :). Did not want to wake up the kids. A gent with bleeding nipples made the huge mistake of unsuitable tee shirt and probably suffered a lot more than I did.  I like 'glide' as lube there are several types

Gently stretching Achilles at a warm water pool after running works for me. The warmth allows me to extend the stretch a little more than when I am cold.

A iron man mate suggest Pilates which I have yet to try myself.  Your training is looking great. As Eagle says we always wonder if we have done enough. We all know he does- Legend! I mostly think the hard work is the training. The joy and celebration of your hard work and efforts is the marathon itself.

Edited by NavyDiverJB, 21 May 2019 - 11:23 AM.


#33 nathaniel2518

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 11:12 AM

Thanks Eagle - appreciate it!!

Navy Diver - Ha, i've never ran far enough to use lube! could be interesting!  Thanks for the advice too.

Just a little concerned about not getting past 2 hours in training without stiffening up. i'll certainly step up the stretching/pilates/physio/strength work for the next few weeks at least and see what happens.

#34 dadagain

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 12:31 PM

View Postnathaniel2518, on 22 May 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

i've never ran far enough to use lube! could be interesting!
Do NOT neglect this! Particularly if you're likely to get wet (either rain or sweat). Make Glide your friend and pay close attention to nipples (I'm a fan of a small bit of tape or band aids - but there are lots of different solutions to the problem).

I'll second what everyone else has said. Training looks good I'm sure you'll be fine, just dont forget to enjoy it all!

#35 nathaniel2518

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 12:32 PM

Wobbled to a 2hr 20 run yesterday. Bit of steepish uphill trail three quarters of the way through was mildly amusing. Felt heaps better during and afterwards. I spent a heap of time rolling the hammies and calf raising the s**t out of my achillies. still got an awkward crampy sensation in the left hammy 30 mins in which kept reminding me it was there on any slight inclines. Better overall though.

Gotcha re glide and tape dadagain. had a slight intro to what can happen without yesterday. :)

#36 nathaniel2518

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 02:47 PM

24km in 2hr 38 mins. TFL flare up at about 8km. Almost couldn't run. Oddly went away. Hammies tightened at 10 but weren't too bad unless i went up hill.  Knees got stiff/sore at 18km. Mind was pretty good - niggles actually helped me forget about the distance. body was pretty well ready to stop at 24km - could probably have done another 3 or 4 without too much of an issue.

4 weeks to go.

i could probably run at 6 min kms not 6.30s... not sure how to choose??? last week I did 20 in 2hrs no problem.

not entirely sure how i'll run for 4hr 30 plus :)

#37 SkyChariot

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 01:10 PM

Sounds like you are going well! Are you doing some warm up before, and some cooldown afterwoods?? Just that you mentioned the flare up earlier on that went away, and I wondered if you were warming up at all?? You also said that the niggles helped you forget about the distance. I am thinking, that is your body talking to you, and perhaps trying to make a few adjustments, and seeing how that helps the niggles through out the longer runs might be another way to keep your mind busy that could be productive. Sort of like, hmmm, my knees feeling a bit stiff......am I landing a bit heavy, could I relax and soften up a bit?? You also mention you are not sure about choosing what pace. I would not be thinking about that really. I would be thinking about getting to the line feeling good and ready to run, and just run as you feel on the day. Lots of things can effect how you run, not just your training and fitness, but also the weather and stuff like that . If you are feeling its all a bit easy at around 6.30 pace, and you know you have the ks in your legs, and can relate back to running the 20 in 2hrs, then you might feel, hey, I can pick it up a bit. If you feel super good from the get go, then you can probably start to run along at that quicker pace and back that you have done the work to keep going to the end, if you are having any issues with that pace, then you can drop back and see how you feel. You can always then pick it up again later on if you are feeling you can manage that. Good luck with the last few weeks lead up.

#38 NavyDiverJB

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 02:13 PM

View Postnathaniel2518, on 11 June 2019 - 02:47 PM, said:

24km in 2hr 38 mins. TFL flare up at about 8km. Almost couldn't run. Oddly went away. Hammies tightened at 10 but weren't too bad unless i went up hill.  Knees got stiff/sore at 18km. Mind was pretty good - niggles actually helped me forget about the distance. body was pretty well ready to stop at 24km - could probably have done another 3 or 4 without too much of an issue.

4 weeks to go.

i could probably run at 6 min kms not 6.30s... not sure how to choose??? last week I did 20 in 2hrs no problem.

not entirely sure how i'll run for 4hr 30 plus :)

Pretty sure you will find you have already done all the hard work and the " 4hr 30 plus" worry will be the celebration of all you effort. The really cool bit is it clearly looks like you're already doing PBs in your training- Congratulations!

Your own question 6 min or 6.30min pace might be left to how you feel on the day. Restraint is your best mate as we can all go faster for shorter distances. It the end of the run where we feel the effort and where earlier restraint helps a lot. Glide is a must for me between legs and under my arms. My tee shirts which do the nipple trick have all gone in the bin at the Salvos or Rotary Rummage shop. No tape for me. Several very boring shirt I brought 6 years ago are still the only ones I will wear past 25km running. I did that mistake just once!

No cotton shirts or socks.  Most of my best stuff is very cheap and oddly preforms and well and lasts a lot longer then the more expensive brands I have tried.

Sock Thread
Consider treating your self to a massage or two or ask the family perhaps? I have 3 kids to feed and cannot afford one myself :)

The spa bath at the local pool often has me siting on the side with my legs in the jets. The Spa Bath on your legs trick is worth trying. Move around every few minutes. Its on my training schedule weekly. I may look totally weird as I often stretch in the warm water rather than sitting like most in the pool.  

With a few weeks before your celebration run start smiling sir

Edited by NavyDiverJB, 12 June 2019 - 02:20 PM.


#39 Eagle

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:08 AM

Setting the correct pace before the race and sticking with in on race day is the thing most marathoners get wrong and therefore do not run to the maximum of their fitness.

A couple of weeks before the marathon have a couple of rest days and then in race gear run a 10k TT as quick as you can. No that is a pace you will not be able to sustain over the marathon but as a rule of thumb multiply it 4.5 and that is like to be you worst marathon time IF you get you pacing right.

Work out the time for the marathon and so the average pace to run that time. You starting pace should be NO MORE than 10/12 seconds per k quicker than that pace AND STICK TO IT NO MATTER WHAT OTHER RUNNERS ARE DOING AROUND YOU.

Run your own race. Be patient and do not run at the start how you feel - it will be way to quick and that quick start will cause all sorts of slow down issues after 30k and any gain at the start will be more that eaten away with the slow down after 30k.