135 replies to this topic

[RunDave]

Has anyone tried any of the loco running shoes yet? They sound good - no frills, good price and good features - but I don't know about buying them over the net without trying them on first. Are they in any shops over east yet?

[Jogger]

Firstly, I have a financial interest in Loco Running shoes, so you can choose to discount what I have to say!

They are not in any shops - yet. But give it time. There are very few people that have a pair in Australia - they are a new brand in the USA since April-2004 and they are only just available here - the ones in Australia to date were specially imported.

I have been running in the various models for a couple of months now and find they are fine. I wear orthotics and that all seems to work out ok (if you remove the insole).

We do plan to be at races, where allowed, as a lot of races have fixed relationships with shops and shoe companies already.

In the meantime "home fittings" can be arranged for the Sydney area.

It is also possible to buy the shoes and get free shipping, you can try them out and we will still change them for free. Sizings appear to be consistent with other running sizes (in US sizes). We want to make the "risk" to the runner of buying on a new shoe as low as possible.

[Freerunner]

Kevin,
What 3rd World Country are these made in? What wage are the actual makers paid? Are enviromentally friendly practices used during the manufacture?
Is your interest purely finanical or are you part of the design process?
Cheers
FreeRunner.

[pbig]

hmmm.... coolrunning, locorunning - looks like a connection there :D

Would like to give them a try one day, let us know when they will be on display somewhere in Melb thanks Kevin.

[Mister G]

Sounds like a great idea. Shoes that don't change every year, that's a winner. But, looking at the sizing chart these shoes only go up to a 12 in a men's.

What options do those of us who aren't midgets have?

[vat]

[indent]quote:

---

Originally posted by Mister G:
do those of us who aren't midgets have?

---

[/indent]Aside from accepting that you're freaks?

I'd more more than happy to look at these. Kev's interest is a plus for me.

[Mister G]

But Vat, we all know that size matters. :)

[Barry Headington]

Kevin - Trust all went well Friday afternoon/evening and that all was in order. Hope very much our service was as you expected and thatyou will consider us again in the future.

Barry Headington

[Niftyone]

Why does someone always have to have a go at where,how,why any shoe is made? It appears as though every item sold in Australia for athletics is made offshore and because of where it is made it becomes an issue If some of these people were that concerned maybe they should give up running (or run with nothing on at all)and find something else to do. There is probably no way that shoes that are made by the milions can be produced by any other method. At least Mr T is having a go a trying to sell a product that runners can use for an acceptable price. Anyway keep on runnin' :rolleyes:

[Freerunner]

Niftyone,
Well because some people like to hang the piss out of everything they see/read/hear, and others like to make informed decisions about what they purchase and its effects on other people, or how much its f%^king up our planet. Which one am I?

Why do some people such as yourself belittle the questioning nature of others?

I personally used to be all for the exploitation of the 3rd World by Western Nations, hell it made me wealthy, and atleast it gives them jobs.
Until you personally visit one of these so called 'better off because of us' factories and communities. Then all the bs you've see/heard etc from all sides of the debate becomes irrelevant.

I find all my questions totally relevant and acceptable. If you wish to travel through life in ignorant bliss I suggest you ignore my posts and subsequent answers to my questions.

Cheers
FreeRunner.

[Stu Mac]

Niftyone, I'm surprised with your outburst, whilst I have enjoyed a few head to heads with Freerunner, I think that his questions were very valid of a new company...

Freerunner, according to the Loco web site (see CR Home page for a link), the shoes are made in the Orient???

KT, when will we see something down outside of the Sydney region, us down south and I imagine up north would be interested in a good shoe that doesn't change for the sake of change?

[Colin Townsend]

Kevin,

I've got a fairly wide foot relative to length - in the past I've been able to wear Asics, Brooks or Puma models.

Have tried adidas, Nike, Reebok,& New Balance at various stages, without much luck.

How does the fit of these Loco shoes rate?

Are you able to compare them to some current shoes or models at all?

Thanks,

Colin

[Speedy Suze]

Freerunner,
Out of curiosity...which shoes do you wear? Are there any good shoes that don't come out of a sweatshop?

Speedy Suze

[RunDave]

Kevin et al,

I think the issue of manufacturing is important. The reality is that these products will be made using cheap labour; however, we can choose products that are made in factories where the pay is deemed to be above the poverty line for that country and where ethical working conditions are in place. So, having said that, are Loco running shoes manufactured under these circumstances?

RunDave

[Jogger]

The shoes are made in China. I don't know what the factory workers get paid, and I am sure even a visit there will never provide the accurate truth - some staff obviously get paid more than others.

As Loco is a small company we don't have our own people permamently on the ground, but work through a company that is joint Taiwanese / Chinese and as I understand it Loco has put a lot of time/effort into developing a good relationship with these people - so I take that to mean that it is not a master/slave relationship but is more evenly balanced. At the end of the day I am not sure if any shoe company directly controls what happens at the factory. I believe that Loco have developed a relationshsip with these people and expect it to be ongoing ie there is no intent to keep moving around the world looking for the cheapest deal.

I have been told that the factory workers are paid good wages and are not sewat-shops, but then I don't have any proof of that and even if someone offered "proof" how can you believe it ?

Each production run of Loco shoes takes only a few days and the factory makes other shoes for other companies - so I am guessing the shoes are no more or no less environmentally friendly than any others. But then we never suggested they were.

Where I say "Loco" above, that refers to Loco USA as they are fully in control of the design process - most people know I do not have a background in shoe design - but I do have an ownership stake in Loco Running in Australia.

The shoes have been developed by mutual friends in the USA (Loco USA) and their mutual friends in Asia. Clearly I would not want to be involved with them if there was anything that looked a bit off to me. In fact the motivation for the founders of Loco Running in the USA, was their dis-satisfaction with the state of the running shoe industry and they wanted to do things their way. The founders have been working at mainstream running companies for many many years but have designing and trialling their shoes for over 10 years now - so don't think that these shoes have been hastily put together. The people running Loco USA are basically just a bunch of runners that are friends, the same as how Loco Running is set up in Australia.

We are able to sell the same quality shoes as the big brands but at a lesser price mainly because we don't spend millions on sponsoring basketballer players, golfers etc and don't have a large infrastructure to support.

Probably the fact that you can ask one of the owners a question like this, and get an answer, in comparison to the level of dialog you can have with the managemenet of any other shoe company, is an indication that Loco Running is
different.

[Jogger]

Barry Headington - thanks for the note. Barry works at Bax Global and managed the importation of our first large shipment of shoes.

Its good to know that there are CoolRunners everywhere!

[42.195]

Kevin, I'm a bit like Colin and would like a bit more information.
Would any of the Loco models be comparable with a Brooks Adrenaline or an ASICS 2090?

[Jogger]

Colin,

I guess one of the indications that Loco is a small company is that our product line is only 4 models of shoes, in sizes from USA5.5 to USA12 and there is only one width.

Like you I have short stumpy feet, and generally where there have been a variety of widths to choose from, I have always gone for the extra wide fitting.

However I have been wearing Loco shoes for a couple of months now, and have not had a problem, and I even wear orthotics too. That is across all 4 of the models.

Given that Loco shoes are not available in any stores today, and whilst we are preparing a list of races that we will attend with a booth, we are offering either:
a) free shipping/returns
or
b) for the sydney area, we will do home visits for trying on shoes. you can contact Loco to arrange.

Because we want to do the right thing for runners, you can wear then on roads for a few km to confirm a fit. More than happy to exchange them if required. If you can't find a model to suit no need to buy a pair or will refund.

We are getting togteher a cross-reference chart that says for a Asics 1090 you should try a Loco Expresso or whatever.

As with any retailer, we want people to be happy with their shoes as if not, you won't buy from us again, so there is no pressure here - if the shoes fit or feel good then happy to sell them, if not then its too bad.

Ditto the guys with size 15 feet - too bad for now <_<

[Jogger]

Stu Mac,

In fact our planned launch was to be the Melboure Marathon, before we were told there was no expo, and even if there was we wouldn't be welcome <_<

We have even conversed with a race in Canberra (not the canberra marathon) but it appears that a lot of people are threatened by a new shoe company <_<

So at any rate we do plan to speak to more races, shops and clubs about being able to let people see the shoes outside of Sydney. As soon as we can. But it will take time.

For the time being, we are OK with people checking out our range, and maybe selecting a pair - we will do free shipping, you can run in them outside to feel confortable, you can return them for a new pair.

Rome wasn't built in a day and we can only go as fast as time allows.

[paulc]

Kevin.
Aren't shoe retailers prepared to stock your runners - or is it just a matter of timing? I would have thought a smaller specialist store like simms in Melbourne would be ideal.

[Jogger]

Paulc - we will be approaching all the stores in due course. However I suspect that most stores (even the speciality running shops) have less shelf space than there are shoes to fit on them. I believe we compete well on price but the retailers will need to feel confident the shoes are good enough. and they won't think that until they can see them also. The first shipment arrived in Australia last Friday.

Some retailers are also concerned that Loco is both a ratiler and a wholesaler and the fact you can go into a store and buy a pair is good, but easier to re-order over the web and have them shipped. They might feel that Loco themselves will compete with the store - particulary if in time we have people attending races on our behalf selling shoes.

In the meantime if anyoen is "connected" with a store, running or general, that is keen to stock them, then please contact me.

We are willing to walk through all the points above to work on a mutually agreeable solution.

The example is Loco USA who had the same initial hurdle - can't sell the shoes until people can try them on - but they are now having running shoe stores contact them to stock them (no end of season discounts as no new models!).

I imagine the same will happen here in due course.

[paulc]

maybe you should take a leaf from Nike's book, and organise free training runs where people can wear a pair of trial shoes for the run....

[RLS]

I would love to try a pair of these on. There is nothing more annoying to find a pair of runners that you like and when you go to get a new pair they have been "improved" and you have to start the process all again.

May I suggest that you have a demo day at the Sydney Corporate Cup. Approx 400 runners in a lunch time.

[clairie]

Hi Kevin,
Do the loco shoes suit both male and female?

[Niftyone]

Golly, I'm sorry. I'll never pass judgment on any one again. It's just seems that nobody will ever change what's happening out there. The situation does concern me, I was just surprised at how quick someone was to make comment on it. Anyway keep on runnin' (barefoot or not) :)

[Jogger]

Clairie - There is no separate female model.

This is from the chief designer:
"our shoes are unisex and we have had great
success Fitting women as our sales have been 50% women and 50% men. Women usually require a narrower heel, but not a narrow forefoot. In fact many women buy our MOJO and Xpresso which have a wide toe box. Everything depends on the fit. At some point we may consider a female model, but its not a priority given the large cross-over from males/females that can share the one shoe".

My reading of this is that in general females can share the same shoes, but if your feet are so narrow/small that you can't then we may not be able to help.

From my own view, I have often worn my wife's shoes that she has bought and worn a couple of times but not liked for one reason or another, so I know that you don't always need to have a female fit - in fact she pretty much wears men's models 80% of the time.

[Jogger]

Further on the manufacturiung issue:

"LOCO as a small company chose a smaller manufacturer who makes branded shoes for other companies. We have only one factory to monitor - as opposed to dozens by other big brands. Our goal is to use a factory that has fair labor practices and maintains a good factory
environment for its workers including a living wage that is reasonable for that part of the country."

[Jogger]

Further on the size issue - we will be stocking size 13s in the near future. Not sure how many people that affects.

[Jogger]

Further on the width issue - best advice as always is to try a pair on:

Perfecto fits a bit narrow - approx a C to a D width. If the runner likes the Nike or Adidas fit - they typically like the Perfecto.

mojo fits most people - it is a D to an E or EE.

Xpresso fits like an E-EE width. If someone in with a more narrow fit, wants to wear them, they can try an extra insole.

[Action]

TEST RUN (no financial interest :D )

Just came back from a 10k run in a pair of Bandito's. Started out slowish, but the last 5k was just over 4 min pace. Very nice. comfy, stable, no pressure points, and very smooth to run in.

I ripped out the inner sole to accommodate my orthotics. There is plenty of width as well. I am definitely a convert. Look forward to trying other models as the opportunity arises.

9 out of 10!

[Stu Mac]

Action, thanks for the Test report, can you provide a little more info, what would be your 'normal' shoe that you would have worn instead of the pair of Bandito's. Just for comparision.

[clairie]

I certainly don't have narrow feet and normally wear GT-2090's. As soon as the comparison chart is available I would be interested to know what model would be best recommended.
I am all for supporting runners in business - and cheaper shoes ;)

[undercover brother]

loco?
mojo?
someone has a sense of humour!
can't wait to try a pair on.
definately need to get my mojo back.

[Mister G]

I was present when Action was testing out the Banditos this morning. The website is right about the "distinctive look"- they look like a lairy pair of Dunlops. :D

[Jogger]

Stu Mac - the banditos are defintiely lightweight racing shoes.

[Action]

Stu Mac
I was a Kayano fan until the last model changes broke them for me, so I am currently rotating some 2090's and Reebok Road Lites, and racing in Gel Bondi (and now the Bandito's). Will give the Loco Xpresso a go shortly as the 2090's are at 700k and due to be promoted to gardening duties. :D

[Freerunner]

Speedy Suze,
A very good question, and as Kevin honestly pointed out a very dificult one to answer. I'd agree most runners are not in the position to be able to be fully sure of the practices of various shoe companies. I certainly know a few I would never buy from.

There are internet sites like the UK's NoSweat, which highlight companies doing the wrong thing and lists companies making efforts to do the right thing . Greenpeace site also contains information on what shoe companies don't use environmentally sound practices etc.

Whether some of the information on such sites is given by people with a certain mindset to be anti everything or whether some companies claims to be making an effort to improve things is genuine, is hard to determine.

In answer to your question on the shoes I wear, my current trainers are Sfida, my racing flats are New Balance, my track spikes are Addidas.
Do I recommend any of these companies because of their practices...No! I do not know one shoe company that I can, and hence my questions to Kevin.

From what I know of Kevin, he seems to be of extremely good character, so I was thinking/hoping perhaps a company he was getting involved with was following good practices that are so lacking in sport shoe industry.
If I found a shoe company that I was certain provided decent working conditions for their employees, and manufactured using evironmentally safe practices I would certainly buy their product.
Cheers
FreeRunner.

[Stu Mac]

Thanks for that Action, I will be interested in your testing of the Loco Xpresso, I am still wearing the Kayano V9 & 10 and both are near the end of their running life, as well I have used the 20XX series. Regarding the Bandito's, have you worn the DS Racers before and if so can you make a comparison.

Is there other CRs who have worn the Loco shoe, what are your comparisons, yes even you Kevin, whilst we know you are financially linked I know I would be interested in your comparison's against shoes that you have previously worn.

[Cato]

Freerunner:
What a load of garbage. Most people chose a shoe that is suited to their requirements at a price they can afford. Compared to our standard of living, every running shoe in the world is made by some poor over worked underpaid employee.Well I dont't care. The car I drive the clothes I wear and the shoes I run in are all made overseas and probably yours are too.As for your suggestion to look at the Greenpeace site, what a joke. Greenpeace love to pick on shoe companies, but have you ever wondered why they make no mention of the worlds greatest killers (cigarette companies)and love to have a go at companies like Nike. Maybe it is because Nike do not make substantial financial contributions to keep them quiet. So nineteen thousand people a year die in Australia as a direct cause of smoking and you wonder where Kevin is getting his shoes from. The computer that you are using, to write your questions on has components that were made in third world sweatshops. Have you considered that?? How nice of you to judge Kevin as a decent person. How will you judge me???

[FakePlasticTrees]

Without wanting to continue this line of discussion in this thread I would say that Freerunner had a right to ask the question. The shoes being made in a non-sweatshop type environment would be a big selling point to most people here. What I didn't like about Freerunner's post is his aggresive and accusatory tone in the post, it may not have been intended but emails/forum posts are quite often misunderstood in terms of tone.

There is however no mistaking Cato's tone. Where's this evidence of Tobacco companies paying Greenpeace? Don't answer that, I don't think this argument is applicable to this thread. If you want to continue the arguments please revive on of the many other threads on this topic so I can go on ignoring it.

[RunDave]

[indent]quote:

---

Originally posted by Cato:
Freerunner:
...How nice of you to judge Kevin as a decent person. How will you judge me???

---

[/indent]Probably as an idiot who doesn't even try to make a difference. As misguided as some people are in their attempt to make the world a better place through organisations such as Greenpeace and Oxfam, at least they care.

[Hermie]

Just looking at my old pairs of Saucony,New Balance,Asics and Adidas and coincidentally they are all made in China.Maybe they all come from the same factory as the Loco shoes.
Maybe we should all wear the Dunlop KT20.Are they still made in Australia?

[clairie]

I do try to buy Australian products where I can, however I also need to look at value to me - ie. Does it suit my style running and my foot size? Does the cost fit my budget? etc.
Hence a lot of the issues listed on this thread are only a few of the factors I consider when buying a shoe.
I won't buy a shoe JUST because it was made in Oz, or just because it was made by someone who earnt a decent wage from it. I need to make sure the shoe I invest in assists my goal to run injury free.
But don't think that means I don't care about important issues or contribute through other means. By supporting Kevin I am supporting the concept of small business Vs big business.

[Cato]

Run Dave
Before you sart calling me an idiot. Why don't you check the Greenpeace web site for what I have suggested. Some "so called" enviromentalists are nothing more than hipocrates.Let me know if you hear of anyone dying as a direct result of wearing a running shoe made in a sweat shop. Just because I don't care where they are made does not mean I don't care about the environment. I just want to focus on what is really important.

[Cato]

Correction!!!
I am an idiot.
That should spell "Hypocrite"

[FakePlasticTrees]

Cato, I found it amusing as I read it as being hippocrates and his oath, which would suggest you should care about the people you can help ;)

[kevinm]

As a partner in crime with Kevin T I also need to declare financial involvement with Loco in Australia. Based on that, please feel free to put your own level of credibility on my comments.

Myself and my wife have been wearing all four models since July this year. Prior to that I had been wearing the Asics DS Trainers for about 7 years and my wife the Asics Kayano for about 5 years. We each go through 3-4 pairs a year.

I am finding that all four models suit me better than any shoe I have ever worn. The Banditos fit like a glove and you barely notice you are wearing them during a race. The other three are all ligh- weight trainers with different amounts of support but all three using similar components in all key areas. I am a neutral runner but have weak ankles. Hence I often wear the Mojo's on some of the long training runs we do on the hilly trails around Warragamba. They are not classed as a trail runner but I have found them perfect for our terrain. The other two trainers are a little lighter and hence have a fraction less support materials. My preference is the Xpresso whilst my wife likes the Perfecto based on nothing more than comfort and fit.

Hope this helps
Kevin Molloy

[RunDave]

Cato,

I think you misinterpreted my post. Firstly, I don't think you are an idiot because I don't know you, I was suggesting that is what freerunner and others may think of you from your previous comments. Secondly, I agree that some organisations actually do some harm as well as good for the environment and sometimes do a lot of social harm in the name of environmental activism. Finally, and following my last point, my main concern is that the workers in the factories are treated fairly. It might not kill you to wear a particular brand of runners or even affect your way of life, but just consider the quality of life of the people who make them.

BTW, I think most of us are, as you suggest, guilty of hypocrisy regarding this issue. All we can do is try to minimise harm.


PS. Very interesting discussion. Seems to indicate how concerned people are about this issue.

[42.195]

... so anyway...
Originally quoted by Kevin
"We are getting together a cross-reference chart that says for a Asics 1090 you should try a Loco Expresso or whatever."

I'm looking forward to the tables arrival so I can try out the Loco "2090" or "Adrenaline".
If they live up to their promise it will be nice to have an alternative.

[Stu Mac]

Good to see the thread is back to the original topic, Loco shoes.