24 replies to this topic

[Ralph Wiggum]

As a wearer of orthotics designed to correct fallen arches, I recently switched from a mild-pronation shoe (DS Trainer VI) to a neutral shoe (Adidas Response Cushion) only to find to my horror that I am unable to run in the neutral shoe. Immediately the original (hip) problems that prompted me to seek advice and an orthotic, is back! The pronation-shoe was worn out on the lateral side ridiculously quick possibly due to the fact that the orthotic was designed to correct pronation, as was the shoe, thus tipping me over too far. But a neutral shoe proved fruitless also! Anyone have advice? Mild-pronation shoe? Anything specific worked for anyone else?
Thanks! :unsure:

[DrJH]

I would aim at improving the strength of the muscles in your foot and ankle so that you don't have to rely on shoe type, orthotics, etc.

You can do this by doing hops, skips, bounds on flat grass or a hill. Try to get up on your toes and feel like you are springing with the foot and ankle.

Be wary of doing too much too soon, otherwise you'll end up with new problems!

It would be nice to assess you in person, but I'm in Sydney.

Good luck!

[maccattack]

Take your shoes and orthotics back to your podiatrist, get them to assess you and your prescription, they should adjust them for you so you get a happy medium between biomechanical control, pain relief and realistic shoe wear. Do you leave the insole in your shoe and then put the orthotic on top? Common mistake which can lead to overcorrection.

[Winston]

Well the DS traininer is a mild proation shoe and the Response Cushion is neutral to underpronation shoe. Is it the supernova cushion or something else. The adidas running shoes are the Supernova Cushion and Control along with the Cairo and Supernova Competiotion. The response is lower down the list. I would opt for something in between a neutral shoe with a cradel, Nimbus by Asics, Glycerin by Brooks, these are more stable options of neutral shoes even something like the old Trance has a mild post or 1080 or even NB 1220/1221.. get correct shoe adviced, it will make a difference. :D

[Cath]

I have the same problem with mild overpronation, however I have very high arches. I used to wear orthotics when I ran in neutral shoes (New Balance 400s), and they worked well, but the shoe itself wasn't good enough. So I switched to the ASICS 2080 which suits overpronators and now I never wear my orthotics and have never had a problem since (although I do only run about 40k/week). I have also been advised not to wear orthotics in addition to a shoe designed for overpronators.

[Tuttle]

In general, if you use orthotics, you should use the same type of shoe (stability, motion control, ec), that you would have used prior to having the orthotics.
And - again, I'd apply the caveat "in general" - most people who use orthotics designed to correct overpronation should steer clear of "neutral" shoes. (Particularly if you're ramping up the mileage.)

[RichieP]

I also wear orthotics. I tried running without them, wearing Asics 2070, but developed a shin splint.Moved to a neutral shoe (New Balance) WITH orthotics, and developed tendonitis in my left foot toes! Have since run in Brooks stability/motion control shoes, and had no problems. Why not give Brooks a try?

[Winston]

I think its important to remember individual differences reagrding motion control, foot type and shape, running distance and also body type. Heavier people need more cushioning etc etc etc... advice is fantastic, i would sooner rather see you head back to your podiatrist for advice or a shoe specialist! Just my 10c worth :D

[darowe]

I agree with DickNasty I am a large runner who wears full orthotics and I have been a Brooks Beast fan for a few years now... The 2003 model is very good and I would chase this shoe all over the place to stay with it.
I also find that, if you want to just help yourself, stretching is really important for an orthotics wearer. Good abdominal tone and loose and flexible hamstrings/lower back are keys to helping the orthotic work properly.
.....also I would add that not all podiatrists have a "global" view- I saw four others before my last podiatrist. She was a gem - she said before we look at my foot she wanted me to see a chiropractor to check that the back is ok.
A few sessions with the chiropractor and I was much better...yet all the "action" had been in the foot!!...we are indeed the sum of our alignments.

Good luck and hope this helps a bit.

Cheers


David :)

[Gasher]

Have to agree with TUTTLE on this subject.

In my experience the orthotics AND the correct running shoes work together.
I was fitted with orthotics a few years ago due to a very bad case of overpronation. So bad in fact that the podiatrist asked if he could film me running on a treadmill to show his Uni class (I felt like a bit of a freak :o ).
Anyway his suggestion to me was the Brooks Beast... I have never had a problem since :D

Gasher

[Tender_Foot]

Mr Wiggum
The rest are all poor imitations: Brooks Beasts are the go.My flat feet and I won't wear anything else! By the way if anyone could plug a good podiatrist in or near the Sydney CBD or on the Central Coast I would be most grateful!

[Action]

The Running Clinic in Ridge St North Sydney. Bill Greenlees. Excellent. +61 2 9955 1611

[MAGPIE]

Interesting topic everyone. I have suffered recently from Shin Splints and have been recommended to see a podiatrist.
Can anyone recommend one for me in Brisbane? Preferably inner/north or west??
Thanks
Magpie (go pies!!!)

[maccattack]

Mick McQueen is a mate of maccattack, he will definitely look after you.

[Hawkman]

Tender_Foot

Do you wear orthotics with your Beasts, and do you find the shoes heavy? I'm a heavy pronator with orthotics (also a video candidate!) and currently run with Asics 2070's. I'm looking for a new shoe as the 2070's have been superseeded by 2080's and the design in the 2080's is quiet different (wider foot etc).

[Tender_Foot]

Thanks Judo and Action, I'll probably give the local boy a go.
Hawkman - I too have a wide foot and the Beasts or Addictions do cater for the wide foot. No orthotics in my beasts but I do wear a commercial insert in my other shoes. This combo seems to work as I don't wake up to that searing pain just below my right heel like I did a few years ago. (I only get a mild recurrence after I play touch football though - and that's where a visit to a podiatrist should help me as there aren't any motion control shoes for touch footy out in the market place. This is how I prepare my foot before a run/game http://heelspurs.com/tapes.jpg.)

[Pabags]

Maccattack
When you say "do you leave the innersole in your shoe and put the orthotic over the top", do you mean the shoe lining?
Does that make a difference? I have had half orthotics for about 2 years now and have never taken anything out of the shoe, just put the orthotics in and off I go. Havent had any problems that I could say might be related to that.
What sort of problems does it cause?

Ian C :)

[JulesRun]

The Beast and Addiction are great, but I find them quite heavy for a 55kg runner. Any suggestions for an equally reliable and supportive shoe that weighs less?

[maccattack]

Sock liner, innersole, the thingy that sits under your foot which has a bit of an arch cushion in it. If you leave this in and add an orthotic it can over correct a pronation problem and tip you too far out. Your orthotic should sit on a flat surface, this is what your podiatrist would have calculated your orthotic correction on so remove the innersole, you should have some liner under your forefoot and toes, may need to cut the back half off and leave the front half in/glue to orthotic or put in a low profile full length liner with no arch to speak of.

[9Ks]

Hi CRs. I thought I'd share my experience w/ y'all.

I've got flat & wide feet (actually wider in the middle than the toes) plus webbing between toes, a pinkie as large as my big toe...

After a bad PF, I got recommended the Beast and orthotics by a podiatrist after video/treadmill, etc. Had to throw away my beloved all-leather white Reebox... At the time I was around 15kg heavier, so Beast was about the only choice.

I tried with the normal liners + orthotics but this was bad - not only I got severe blisters every time I ran (the hard 1/2 length orthotics kept moving around) they over-compensated.

I then tried replacing the liners with off-the-shelf "sports" inserts - no more orthotics. I only wore orthotics when walking. This was better, but I felt that my feet were getting weaker - depenent on the arch support all the time.

So I tried with normal liners only, to strengthen my arches. No more orthotics even for walking. But my feet got tired after a while.

Now I alternate between using the "sports" inserts and the liners that come with the Beast. No orthotics. By the way, I don't tie my laces tight - I find the Beast too rigid for a good push-off.

I hope this helps & YMMV,
9Ks.

[Tesso]

MAGPIE

I can highly recommend Alan McCulloch at All Podiatry at Indooroopilly. He got me out of Beasts and into a much lighter shoe (Asics 2080s). I'd always run in Brooks Beasts (or Chariots way back when) and he's the first person to ever point out to me that they're made for runners waaaay heavier than me. Not a single salesperson had ever mentioned that. And he did a such a great job on my orthotics I wish I could fit them into all my other shoes not the runners!

[maccattack]

I got the same advice from Phil Perry at Homebush just last week, advised me out of Beasts into addiction or adidas supernova, plus a pair of top orthotics.

[wait for me]

a word of warning about the addiction and beast. If you have a short high arch, they may not be the shoe for you. They have a long last for stability, but teed with a short arch, I found I had cronic pressure blisters as my foot was flexing against the last. A good running podiatrist saw this in a second and now I am running blister free in brooks trances.

Always pays to see a professional if there are probs. :D

[Pabags]

Thanks Maccattack, will give it a whirl and see if there is any difference.

Ian C :)