32 replies to this topic

[Slacker]

Hi, I bought a pair of the 2090's just over 3 months ago and have done a little over 400kms in them.

Yesterday I discoved that the heel lining has a small hole worn through on one of the shoes and has almost worn through on the other.These have now given me blisters.

Do Coolrunner's think this is acceptable amount of km's before this happens? Has anyone had a similar experience with this model?

I do most of my running on road and these shoes were fitted for me by a reputable running store.

What do you think? I am asking for too much?

[PodRunner]

Hi Repoman,
Do you have bony irregularities on the back of your heels? Many people do( Haglunds Deformity/ exostosis- due to friction on the bone/periosteum) and this can cause stress points on the fabric, causing early wear.
Also, as shoe companies try to keep their product weight down, they are using much lighter fabrics which can tear more easily. This may mean that any replacement pair can tear just as quickly.
Best idea is to take them to a shoe repair place asap and get a thin piece of leather glued over the whole inside of the heel cup before it gets any worse. It is a fairly common problem.

[Cadbury]

No I don't think you're asking too much.
I would expect to get around twice that much out of them. Having said that, I just took a look at the heels on my 2090's and they are showing signs of wear as well at around 350k's. I haven't felt any discomfort yet and hopefully won't.

Take them back, if they are a reputable store they will no doubt do something about it, perhaps even replace them.

[He Swoops]

I have had this problem with every pair of Asics shoes I've owned (over the past six years).
It's either a design fault in the shoes or in my feet.
I usually wear through the material at the heel within 150km.
Two shoes ago I changed my regular training runner to Brooks Adrenalin (from Asics 2050, 60,70 etc). The problem is still there but not until 400-500km.
My absolute worst shoes for this problem were the Asics DS trainers (the blue ones of 18 months ago). They were also the most uncomfortable shoes I've ever bought. Gave me terrible blisters all over.
Surprisingly, the best shoes I ever bought were the bright orange DS trainers from around early 2002.
Strange.
I'm going to give Asics one more go with the news Forster shoe (which I race in only) and which is based on the DS Trainer.
But for my everday runner, I'm a convert to Brooks Adrenaline, which is giving me greater general longevity.

[susan]

I had exactly the same problem at about the same number of kms. I took mine back for advice to the shop that I bought them from ( like you, a reputable running store) and got told "bad luck- it won't be a problem". But it was. And I ended up getting a piece of lining put over it a few days before a half marathon. It did the trick but it was not really suitable for much more training and the shoes really did have some more life in them.

Speaking to another shop later on, I understand that it is a common problem with this model. They suggested that if it were to happen again, the running shop should sort it out or failing that I should contact ASICS directly.

Good luck and let us know how you fare.

[Fish]

Repo Man,

Consider yourself lucky, mine lasted 3 weeks (around 100kms) before Rebel Sport sent these back to ASICS and provided a credit. Seems to be a recurring problem with every second release of the 20xx series. I had no problems with the 2060s or 2080s and had two pairs of each. Yet I sent probably four pairs of 2070s back and 1 pair of 2080s back for exactly the same problem (kind of like a sponsorship but very annoying).

Insist the store you bought them from send them back as I received credits or replacements for every pair. Failing this contact ASICS as they are aware of the issue. Speak to Stuart Mcdermid at ASICS as I have found him to be very receptive to this issue. Also his email address is: stuart@asics.com.au

I also agree with He Swoops and my favourite shoes were also the old bright Orange DS trainers (which were the DS Trainer 6). I've tried to find these all over the country with no luck. Found a pair on ebay.com (US version of ebay) which are currently at 1US for my size but they don't ship to Australia (bugger)!.

[daveb]

Similar story with me. I contacted Stuart at Asics and he was most helpful. Mind you since then I have switched to Mizuno Waveriders and have had no problems. I had the heel problem on 3 different models of the 2090 which otherwise is a great shoe.
I reckon you should get at least 800k out of a shoe even if you are on road all the time (I'm off road quite a bit).
Good luck
daveb

[Slacker]

Update.... I called the store and they said that they were happy to approach Asics on my behalf but to wait until after the 1st week of Jan as most people are on leave. No promises though.

In the meantime I have also emailed Stuart at Asics to see what he can offer/suggest.

Podrunner asked,

[indent]quote:

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Do you have bony irregularities on the back of your heels? Many people do( Haglunds Deformity/ exostosis- due to friction on the bone/periosteum) and this can cause stress points on the fabric, causing early wear.

---

[/indent]No, not that I am aware of and I haven't had this problem with any sort of shoes before.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers.

[Colac]

I have problems with lining wear from time-to-time at around 800 kms, but I am only paying around $25-$50 per pair, and I don't mind tossing them away at that stage.

I am really, really pleased I am not a guinea pig for $200+ shoes that are susposed to have been properly tested before being released onto the market.

I once wore some shoes made out of "blown" (recycled) rubber. They were the ultimate in luxury, so soft and comfortable from the moment I slipped them on. But the rubber was so soft, they started falling to pieces from day one, and the Warehouse gave me a full refund after about 5 weeks.

They were American made, and I would have liked another pair just for races, but they were a once-only purchase by the Warehouse. They didn't need breaking in, so wouldn't have caused blisters.

I know of ultra runners who are have shoes that are still functional after 12 years of races.

It's possible to make shoes that never wear out, and strong linings that can be taken out and washed, but it's not in the interest of shoe makers to put them on the market.

It's not hard to cut out the materials to make shoes, and then assemble them. I used to make them on contract for 4-7 cents a pair in a rubber factory. I put together between 1,000 and 1,600 pairs a week depending on the style.

[shark]

Repo & others

I also know a guy with exactly the same problem - has just moved over to NB. I stick with ASICS as I have never had this problem. I'm currently on my 15th pair of ASICS and that includes 2 2090's - they have done 600k & 300k - no heel wear evident.

Seems like a regular problem they will have to fix.

S

[Dave]

I have a similar problem at the moment with both of my pairs of Brooks Trance. Around 250km per pair and both have worn at the heel and at the moment my heels are macerated (is that a word?).

Interesting thing is my previous pair (that I still have) are around 900km with intact lining.

At around the same time I got new orthotics and I am now of the belief that the orthotics have dropped me a little further in the heel cup and are causing the problem. Resolved today, after yet another blood blister on the rh heel to get back to the podiatrist and sort it out.

Before the old Trance I had a set of Kayano's and had worn through the lining on those, just not with the bloody frequent blistering I am encountering at the moment :angry:

[Colac]

I am wondering whether there is a relationship between how well your feet fit your runners, and the amount of free space movement accelerating the friction damage to the linings.

I have a short, wide foot. This means I have surplus toe box room. My toes bend different to the shoes, thereby creating blisters on some occasions in multi-day events.

Many of the shoe-lasts in factories have not been changed for 60 years.

Athletes have different feet these days, because of not doing the heavy physical work of our predecessors, and different diets.

Shoes in Europe once cost the same price as a newspaper, and were handcrafted by men who passed the skills down from one generation to another. The leather was not as comfortable as modern day runners made out of flexible rubber.

Arthur Lydiard emphasised the need to tie your laces differently to keep pressure off the toes and more on the heels.

If I wasn't able to buy cheap shoes, I would probably make my own.

[Bellthorpe]

[indent]quote:

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Many of the shoe-lasts in factories have not been changed for 60 years.

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[/indent]An interesting observation, but not one of the modern manufacturers of running shoes has been in existence for that long.

[Colac]

There are tens of thousands of shoe factories around the world, yet you probably only get to hear about the ones with large advertising budgets.

The best advertised running shoes are not necessarily the best quality you can buy.

The factory I worked in in the 1970's is still going; new owners always change the name of the businesses they purchase, so as to avoid being hit with the liability for past tax or false accounting dismeanors the tax dept may one day discover.

For example, you may see a business name with a date in it, like B.C. Bunting (1961) Ltd. This means that there was a change of ownership in 1961, and only the assets of the business have been purchased. The name "Bunting" is retained as the company is an icon for advertising.

New owners may buy a business, but not use the old name.

Sometimes the assets of a shoe company are purchased, and taken to a new site. That's how the shoe-lasts keep getting used for so long.

[Bellthorpe]

[indent]quote:

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The factory I worked in in the 1970's is still going; new owners always change the name of the businesses they purchase, so as to avoid being hit with the liability for past tax or false accounting dismeanors the tax dept may one day discover.

---

[/indent]Changing the name of a business does nothing at all to change its liabilities, present or future.

[indent]quote:

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For example, you may see a business name with a date in it, like B.C. Bunting (1961) Ltd. This means that there was a change of ownership in 1961, and only the assets of the business have been purchased. The name "Bunting" is retained as the company is an icon for advertising.

---

[/indent]That's one possible explanation for such a name, out of many. Many 'shelf' companies, for examples, have names in such a style.

[Slacker]

I just remebered that I posted this thread before going away on holidays and thought I provide an update.

Both shoes now have holes in the lining in the same place. I have managed the problem of blisters by using sports tape on my heels on any runs longer than 5k.

No reply at all from Stuart at Asics.

I did not bother taking the shoes back to Active Feet (although they did offer to approach Asics on my behalf) as I have managed to get good use out of them by using the tape on my heels.

I'm now looking at buying a new pair of runners. Anyone know what the Brooks equivalent of the 2090's is?

[langswm]

Repo
I changed to the Brooks Adrenalin a couple of months ago, after many years on the various Asics models (including 2 pairs of the 2090's). Couldnt be happier with the Adrenalin's, following recommendations from a podiatrist and also Running Science in Rozelle. Will run on them for the 6ft.

[danieljohngreen]

Hi all

Being away over christmas I had missed this thread. I think I will add my five cents worth, especially given that I wear test for Asics and provide them with feedback on how the shoes lasted and felt. I currently have a pair of 2110 and they are have the most dramatic changes I have seen in an updated model of the 2000 range (I have run in them all over the years from the 2000 up). In every pair that I have run in since getting orthodics, I inevitably wear out the heel lining. I definitely put this down to the elevated position of my foot in the shoe with my orthodic in there. It also happens on the DS trainers and infrequently I will get a blister from it. Interestingly it happens more on one foot than the other as one othodic is slightly higher than the other.

So I think that this happening to some people would be a result of not just abnormalities on peoples heels, but also just where your heel sits in the shoe itself and do you have orthodics or heel lifts which are putting your foot in a higher position?

A couple of comments in light of some of the discussion by Colac. Yes it is possible to make a running shoe that would last forever, but you may as well just run barefoot!! Modern shoes are developed to provide cushioning and protection from the impact and shock caused by running. If you are providing this type of cushoning in the shoe, then there is always going to be limited life to a shoe, as the midsole will compress with use and then no longer offer the same cushioning it once did.

Secondly, the shoe last has changed over the last 60 years. Just go and have a look in any shoe store now and there are straight last running shoes, curved last running shoes and semi-curved running shoes. Each provides a different range of movement for a different type of foot. Flat-footed people (those with little or no arch) are best suited to straight last shoes. People with high arches are best suited to curved last, it aids the movement of their feet. Those in the middle to a semi-curved last. I am sure that there was not this range of lasts on the market 60 years ago. I mean Derek Clayton was running in Dunlop volleys in the late 60's.

Regards
Greeny

[susan]

Repo Man

I bought a pair of Brooks Adrenalin as my alternate pair of shoes to the 2090s. I found that they gave me terrible blisters on the medial side of the big toe (MTP joint). I thought that it was just some stitching or something that didn't suit me but it was explained to me, by Active Feet that the structure of the shoe is actually different. That the post that gives the arch stability is located further back which made my foot roll forward on an angle, hence the blisters.

Now I may not have explained it well or it may be rubbish, but it made sense at the time and explained my never before had blisters.

The Adrenalin also flared up my plantar fasciitis and I ended up giving them away to my sister.

Having said that, everybody else seems to love them and you may have no trouble. I have now moved on to the Kayano (why spend $200 on a pair of shoes when you can spend $250????)with no wearing on the heel lining like I did with the 2090s.

Sue

[RunningOnEmpty]

Susan,

I had the same PF problem with Brookes Adrenaline's. Having flat feet I now wear Brookes Beasts but rotate my arch supports thru all my shoes

[nikolay]

My Asics 2100 also got worn through the hill lining, but that hasn’t given me any blister problems so far, so I bought another pair last week.

I used to wear Brooks Adrenaline, but when my foot strike was videotaped and analysed (Steve from "Athletic Edge" in Randwick was very helpful) I was told that the Adrenalines have a bit more support than my foot needs (I’m neutral) and was recommended Asics 2100. And indeed I had some knee problems before, which are now gone with the 2100s.

I’m going to run 6ft with my new Asics 2100 and see how it goes. Last year I ran in Adrenalines and got knee pain for weeks after the race.

[langswm]

I guess it all depends on your particular physiology. For me, I have a pretty 'normal' arch, but have a heavy heal strike when running and a reasonable degree of pronation. The Adrenaline, with greater heel support than the 2090's seemed ideal to fix my particular problem.

[Graham Wye]

I've been wearing the Asics 2000 series for the last 8 years and the only pair I have worn through the lining on the heels were the 2090s. This happened during the first half of last year's Trailwalker, leaving matching blisters on both feet. Initially I thought it was the socks I was wearing which kept being sucked into the shoe, perhaps it was the shoes after all!

[flat feet]

Interesting, I was weraing ASIC'sin 2000 when I joined this website and I can recall complaining about exactly the same problem. I have to say that I wear orthotics so that higher heel position maybe the reason why it used to occur. Good luck.

[Steve 'The Footman']

Most of the above comments help to support the most important theory in running shoe design. That is different shoes suit different runners.

The inside heel wear issue, as Podrunner said, can be caused by a bony growth on the back of the heel called a Haglunds deformity. The other likely causes are movement inside the shoe from the shoe not fitting properly or having too much or too little stability. I have found that once you cover the inside with leather leaving the depression that has been made then the blistering and wear disappears. I do not think that Asics is any more likely than other shoe companies to have this problem.

Colac your comments about the last of shoes all being the same for years shows a complete ignorance of reality. While this might be true of the cheap crap you buy this is not true of modern running shoes. Perhaps you should go to a running store instead of target and try on a variety of shoes. It will be quite obvious that some shoes, even within the same brand, fit dramatically different to others. All the lasts used in current running shoes are designed by computer based on alot of research on foot morphology. Shoe midsoles are formed up around these shapes and are no longer just flat pieces of foam with an upper stuck on. In the old days of last design lasts were hand carved by a craftsman. Half sizes were only increases in widths, These days a computer logarithm increases the whole last size. Anyone who tells you that half sizes are only increases in width is living in the 1960's.

Colac while you have been able to run trouble free in cheap shoes for thousands of kilometres that is not the reality of most people. The fact that some people have problems that can be fixed by simply changing shoes reflects the great advantage of running shoe development in the last 40 years. The choice that is available now is massive so getting the best shoe to suit each person is an achievable goal.

[Colac]

Steve, I don't have perfect feet, it's very difficult to find a pair of modern technology shoes that fit me properly.

I wear cheap shoes because I need to buy a new pair every 3-4 weeks, and new technology shoes with the same road life are beyond my financial means.

My experience with assembling more than 1,000 pairs of shoes a week in a factory, taught me a lot about shoe design.

I think modern shoes are causing far too many injuries, a lot of unnecessary blisters, and the selling price is extravagent compared to the actual production cost.

Linings shouldn't be breaking down by 200 kms !
They are using very soft (cheap) linings, because they know you will be chucking out the shoes by 600 kms.

Zatopek trained in army boots or tennis shoes without problems.

4 billion people on earth. Modern factories produce only a small percentage of the running shoes made in the world.

I want to see improved value for money, not designer label running shoes that wear out between 200 -600 kms. That's not technology improvement, it's technology failure !!!!!!!

I have seen shoes with several thousand kms of road running that had very little wear on them.

It's great that we can get a lot of half sizes now with new kinds of lasts coming in, but if this new computer technology is so good in matching your feet with the shoes, WHY AREN'T THE NUMBER OF INJURIES FALLING OFF, STEVE ????

The first time I drove a car, I had to mend 3 punctures on a long journey. The tyre companies have used REAL TECHNOLOGY to improve modern tyres, and punctures are extremely rare these days. I was talking to a 4-wheel drive owner who had over 100,000 kms from his tyres.

SO WHY CAN'T SHOE DESIGNERS DO THE SAME ??

I suspect that runners don't complain enough, so the designer never gets the faulty shoes back on his desk on a Monday morning.

[AJS]

My 2080's and now 2090's both wore out in the heel area in quick smart time. Looked pretty tatty but I was lucky and never got any blisters and it never seemed to effect the way the shoe worked. I probably get about 800 clicks out of a pair of shoes and even for an 80 to 120 km a week runner that is not a long time to have start to fork out another $150 to $180 (thats more than a days pay for most of us).

Seems that on this thread those of us who pay full dollar for shoes (or shop around for specials) reckon that the shoe companies could do a lot better. Those that are in the business of selling them or get given them seem to think that the quality is adequate given the technology.

I have to agree with Colac with his examples of technology and quality. Someone else's example of Clayton and Dunlop Volleys doesn't hold much water with Colac's argument - yeah sure, we drove Holdens in 1968 but the Holden of today gets a lot more miles out of the engine and is more fuel efficient etc.,

Cycling is the same - Continental Gatorskins (to name one) have outstanding wear quality and puncture resistance compared to the tyres of even only 10 years ago.

For me - I used to run in those Tigers that had the thin sole and blue nylon upper, maybe they taught me to run light on my feet but they seemed to do the same job then that my high tech shoes do now and honestly the high tech shoes feel about the same as they did after about 300 clicks.

Yep, I reckon the shoe companies could do a lot better.

[MPHinLondon]

I have a pair of Adrenalines, that I've had since December (500K or so), and both heels are gone. I have to put tape on them so the plastic part doesn't cut into my heel. I got them free, so I can't feel too hard done by, but if I had bought them I would be royally pissed off. If I don't wear tape on my heels I get blisters on anything over 10K, even with tape on the heel part of the runner, I know they will be soon for the bin.

I'll be buying Asics again next, I just can't get used to the Brookes, feels like I'm running in a brick. My Asics Gel Kayano did 1600Ks and the heel on both shoes are still perfectly fine, and I have the same orthotics now as I did then.

[EatEm]

I used 2090's when I started back running and yes the heal linings both wore through fairly quickly. I am now on to my second pair of Gel Kayano's (both X & XI) and have had no trouble with the heal lining to date.

Different strokes for different folks !!

[MPHinLondon]

Slight hijack:

Does anybody know anywhere in Sydney or via mail order that you can get the the previous model of the Gel Kayano X still (orange colour)?

[Bellthorpe]

From eBay. For example, http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...item=5360896807

[expozay]

I'm incredibly disappointed with my current pair of 2100's which I bought from Running Science in January. These shoes have done no more than 300km and I just noticed yesterday that the heel lining is worn through on both feet.

I admit to wearing orthotics, but my previous pair of Brooks Glycerine which I bought about 6 months ago are still fine apart from a lack of cushioning (hence why I replaced).

:angry: Another $200...gone.

[Stu Mac]

MPHaz, Stringer Sports , can highly recommend, never had a problem and normally get delivery here in Melbourne within 2 or 3 business days. The 'specials' have version 10s going for $179, I would suspect you may be able to find cheaper elsewhere, but I know they still have them.


To return to the original thread, my last pear of the 20 series was 2060s, whilst a good shoe I too had problems with the heel around the 500-600 mark from memory, I do not wear orthotics. This not being the reason, but I have worn Kayano since and never had the problem and never paid more than $180 from Leo Russell or Stringer Sports. My Kayanos last between 800-1000kms as running shoes and then become general bumming around shoes.