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Heartbreak hill incline?


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#1 wrecked

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 05:28 PM

Does anyone have any idea what is the average incline on heartbreak hill? What would it be at the steepest section (which I reckon is about one third of the way up)?

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#2 RLS

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 05:38 PM

What hill? It's not enough to worry about.

#3 Pasty

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 06:20 PM

This question was answered in a previous thread - Sun Herald City to Surf and Heartbreak Hill.

Poppy said:

quote:


Agree with John Dawlings - it starts at 6k and goes for about 1.5km.

Steepest part is in the first 500m. From memory it's about a 1 in 8.5 slope (1m up for each 8.5m along) according to the race info brochure. It flattens out a little after that.
  



#4 wrecked

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 08:29 PM

thanks pastyboy....i'd missed the other thread. Anyway I suppose a 1 to 8.5 incline must be about equal to 6 degrees for a treadmill simulation. Hows my maths?

#5 HazBean

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 09:52 PM

Not bad. 6.7 degrees   :D

#6 Speedy Suze

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 11:08 PM

A question for the Victorians...does anyone know if the incline is an Anderson St type incline or a Puffing Billy type incline?

#7 HazBean

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 11:31 PM

From a previous post (internet search) I found:

"I calculate it rises 35m in 500m ie 4 degrees (7%), now you see a lot of runners doing hill intervals here!"

So, "Heartbreak Hill" is three times as long and nearly twice as steep.

Obviously relying on the accuracy of previous info.

#8 laotze

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 02:09 AM

I've only done the city to surf a couple of times, but as far as hills go, in 14 kilometres, I kept wondering what every-one was talking about.  Hills?  What hills?

There is a 'heartbreak hill' in the Boston marathon also, and having walked it the day before I ran it, i knew it was hardly more than a speed bump.

But funny, at the Gold Coast marathon I found those bridges over the canals towards the end, very challenging.

As I've mentioned on other threads, for some reason a lot of runners have a real thing about hills.  Admittedly I've learned to train on them, but after not too much work they become more of an ally than an enemy.

The thing to remember in city to surf is that you start on the side of a hill, and finish next to the sea, so overall it must be downhill.

Learn to love the ups, I say, because they are almost always followed by downs!

#9 MikeF

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 05:06 AM

Tim Noakes in "The Lore of Running" has some statistics on the oxygen cost of running up hills. If heartbreak hill has a gradient of 1:8.5 (ie 11.7% ie 6.7 degrees) it would be equivalent to running into a headwind of 60 km/h. That doesn't sound right, certainly not as an average gradient (though perhaps as a maximum gradient?).

That would also make it steeper than the L'Alpe d'Huez in the Tour de France! Where is someone with the topographic map for that section of Sydney when you need them?

Anyway, suppose it has the same average gradient as Boston's heartbreak hill. I have no reason for assuming this, in case this fact gets referred to in future threads as the gospel truth; just for argument's sake. Then it would equate to a gradient of 4%, be equivalent to a headwind of 40 km/h and lead to a reduction in running speed (for the same effort I guess) of 2.6 km/h. (You faster downhill than on the level too, obviously, but not enough to offset a slow uphill).

That reduction is quite a lot by the way. For example, the difference in running speed for the median performance at Sydney Striders’s North Head (fastest) 10k and Lane Cove (slowest) 10k is only about 0.3 km/h.

I agree with awiseman that it's wrong to let hills psyche you out (not that I practice what I preach). Though surely he jests to say that the CtS's hills aren't noticeable? One would have to be pretty unobservant not to notice them!
    
Cheer, Mike

#10 FitzCameron

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 07:13 PM

I did the C2S in 97 My first ever fun run - wow what a way to start!  Yes the hills were "interesting" but as an infrequent visitor to Sydney and a relative newcomer to the country at the time (my second time to Sydney), and the whole spectacle of the event, I found myself looking around so much that before long Heartbreak Hill was over - of course, I didn't know that the incline kept on going....that was a smidgeon unfair.

Running into Bondi was, for me, just one of the best experiences I have ever had.  It felt as though the whole world had come out to cheer me on!!!

Hills schmills....!  :D

#11 Mister G

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 08:25 PM

FitzCameron,

The 1997 C2S was my first race too. How about that? The one and only time I'll do that event.

I got to about the 11K point and asked the guy next to me where Heartbreak Hill was. He replied "it was back there..."

MikeF, you can look up all the topos of NSW you want  here at Topoweb.

#12 FitzCameron

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 08:58 PM

First and only...?  If my knees were: not aching/pointing the right way, I'd be there in a shot - I would love to do the C2S again.  Last night I gave my usual speech to 30+ Gunn Runners extolling the virtues of the run - I reckon there will be a group heading up.

I was on business in Sydney about 3 months ago and stayed at a place in Rushcutters Bay - one of the main reasons was to run up heartbreak hill (I did forget however, there are two realtively big hills leading upto it and then on the way back as well.....  :)  )  I wanted to do it because there ain't no hills in St Kilda...

#13 Mister G

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 10:02 PM

quote:


Originally posted by FitzCameron:
First and only...?

I'm not a fan of big crowds. Especially lemming charges.

#14 wilbur

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 10:20 PM

Mister G - Have you seen the huge poster in the window at the Rebel Warehouse in Auburn.
I think of you every time I see it.
Huge mountains,trails that wind and go on for ever,beautiful scenery and no crowds- just one runner
I can image you would really appreciate it - you may even be able to tell us the location of the photo..

#15 Spalding

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 12:14 PM

Mr G,

I'm getting picky I know, but it seems to me that you are belittling, a race that thousands of us are so proud of for just having a go.

I realise you are above such a race. (not extreem / long enough for the likes of you).

I noted how you so easily destroyed Heartbreak Hill on your first attempt.  You must have been flying not to have even noticed the hill???  :D  

Probably looking for a sub 48 time for the race were you..... ooops just looked at your PB's.
  :angry:  

My times arn't that great and I've often not entered because I couldn't be bothered with the crowd.  BUT WOW, what a spectacle the race is.  and yes there is a hill in it and yes I'm sure we all could find something steeper to run up.

Give the punters a bit of slack MrG,... It's a BIG hill!!!! but not the biggest.

#16 Mister G

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 01:21 AM

quote:


Originally posted by Spalding:
I noted how you so easily destroyed Heartbreak Hill on your first attempt.  You must have been flying not to have even noticed the hill???   :D  

I wish! If I remember, my time was something like, umm, 77 minutes.  :)  

quote:


Originally posted by Spalding:
I realise you are above such a race. (not extreem / long enough for the likes of you).

Hardly. I run plenty of 10Ks. I'll be fronting at the Woodstock Fun Run on August 1st, as I have every year since I moved to Sydney (except 2001, when I was away). I've done quite a few fun runs in the last few years- the SAN 10K and the Bridge to Bridge 10K for example.

There are plenty of fans of the race on this website. It'll survive one contrary view.

#17 Phantom Strider, retired

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 03:29 AM

quote:


I'm not a fan of big crowds. Especially lemming charges.
  

Hmmm ... Another otherwise intelligent person taken in by Walt Disney fakery (White Wilderness 1958). But don't worry Mr G most Americans are just as screwed up about lemmings as you.  :P  

(cf  Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior how it was done)

#18 Mister G

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 05:01 AM

I'll be damned. I thought the mythology about Lemmings was a lot older than that- 19th century at least. But a  quick check shows me Phantom is right- it only dates from 1958.

I've learned something today.

Still a useful analogy.  :)  

So Phantom, next piece of folklore, did Coca Cola really invent Santa Claus, as we know him?  :D

#19 Mister G

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 05:10 AM

Wilbur.

Sounds interesting, I'll keep an eye out for it the next time I'm in the area, it's not far from where I live.

I should souvenir it for Lebusqp, Black Hole or KevinCassidy- they are CR's real kings of mountain running. I am a mere pretender compared to those gentlemen.  B)

#20 MikeF

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 05:33 AM

Thanks Mister G for the link to Topoweb.

From that I estimate that Heartbreak Hill gains 80 metres in altitude over about 1.6km, a gradient of 1 in 20 (5%). The gradient is steeper over the first 700m but doesn't exceed 10% over any significant stretch.

#21 Phantom Strider, retired

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 06:15 AM

quote:


So Phantom, next piece of folklore, did Coca Cola really invent Santa Claus, as we know him?  

Santa Claus? Don't believe in him. Do you?  ;)

#22 Mister G

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 06:29 AM

quote:


Originally posted by Phantom Strider:
Santa Claus? Don't believe in him. Do you?   ;)  

But what did you tell the kids?  :D

#23 astro

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 12:45 AM

quote:


Oringinally posted by Mike: For example, the difference in running speed for the median performance at Sydney Striders’s North Head (fastest) 10k and Lane Cove (slowest) 10k is only about 0.3 km/h.

is that all? Damn, I thought had my excuse already worked out in case I bombed out this Saturday.
Heartbreak Hill can't be too bad, I've only done one C2S years ago and can't remember the hill either. Can't be worse than Quarry Rd anyway     :D    
    

quote:


Originally posted by Phantom Strider:
Santa Claus? Don't believe in him. Do you?   

Santa's not real?! Hell, who's they guy I've been working for every Christmas then?!     :)    

Elf    :D

#24 journeyman

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:04 PM

I heard that heartbreak hill wasn't so bad, it's the couple of hills soon after that get you. Is this true?

#25 FakePlasticTrees

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:20 PM

[tongue in cheek]For those that are unaware, there is a fairly significant hill during the C2S. It goes for about 2kms and is evident by the upward pitch of the road. [/tongue in cheek]

It may not actually be a heartbreak but it does exist. Last year was my first time in the C2S and it wasn't HH that got to me. Journeyman you are right, after HH there is several down and ups (rollercoaster like) these really annoyed me. Still I'm a better runner now than then so maybe it won't worry me so much this time.

Lil 'elf, keep on getting my presents ready, I appreciate it each year.   :D

#26 undercover brother

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:34 PM

have to agree with mr g about the crowd thing.
brisbane's version - the bay to brisbane (have i got the name wrong?) is a month or 2 away.
it doesn't have as many as C2S but 16000 is still way too many for me.
have never competed in this race and probably never will (though i have thought of running it in a chicken suit).
to me the ideal race is one in which you can pull up in the middle of the trail drop the shorts and let out the morning coffee without embarrasing anyone (particularly myself).
(sorry for the crudeness if anyone's offended.)

#27 sje

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 10:28 PM

You are thinking of the Bridge to Brisbane on August 1st.

#28 run4it

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 12:13 PM

Journeyman - It's interesting you said that because I did find the hills afterwards more bothersome than heartbreak hill itself and I thought I was the only one.  I think it may be more psychological than anything - you get to the top of heartbreak hill and there's a big sign congratulating you for conquering it, and then you discover it's NOT all down hill from there.

As for the difficulty of the hill, training has a lot to do with it.  The first year I ran C2S, I lived in Hong Kong and ran up Victoria Peak every day so I was one of those saying "where is this heartbreak hill thing?"  The past two years (since I have lived in Sydney) the hill has actually bothered me more - although my times have improved since that first run so again the bother may be more psychological than physical???

#29 Action

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 02:29 AM

My personal non favourite hill in the C2S is at about 9.5k, that first hill in Military Rd.  Not nice.    <_<  

Run4it, I used to run up the hill at the other end of Hong Kong Island (Mt Taylor?) and agree with you - the C2S has definitely grown more hills since I came back from there   :D

#30 cliff barnes

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 09:56 PM

not sure exactly but it kills me every year as well

#31 KevinCassidy

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 04:02 PM

cliff barnes.......Do you ever think you will outsmart J.R.Ewing

#32 heartnsoul

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 01:49 AM

yes i agree with action, run4it and journeyman's accounts of the C2S. i think that heartbreak hill is not that tough. heartbreak hill is 5km into the race and goes for about 1.5kms but i think it is the steep short hills after that which are the tough ones to look out for.

#33 Fossil

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 02:21 AM

The focus on 'Heartbreak Hill' is all about hype - the reality is you'll get up it fine and the race really starts after Heartbreak hill. Trying to keep a good pace up to the turn by the cemetary and making use of the downhills are more important IMHO

#34 troylatta

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 11:30 AM

i think heart break hill is for those people that decide to challenge themselves once a year, but for the rest of us its nothing, i find harder to cycle up

#35 Mouse

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 01:04 PM

I think the twisty hills after heartbreak hill are worse than HBH itself.  Those really hurt me  last year!   B)

#36 squeak112

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 01:18 PM

I reckon that HBH is not too hard so long as you have done plenty of hill training leading into the race.
The hills that you should be careful of are the one around Vaucluse and Dover Heights as there are some sneaky little one that take the wind out of your sails.

Good luck.

#37 tank girl

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 01:20 PM

View Postdavid m, on Jun 3 2004, 04:34 PM, said:

...to me the ideal race is one in which you can pull up in the middle of the trail drop the shorts and let out the morning coffee without embarrasing anyone (particularly myself)...

Hehehe, maybe I don't wanna be running the Alpine with you then...

As for crowds - I hate them. I really hated it at Bridge to Brisbane. But I went into that race intending to race, so finding myself right near the front but still behind so many walkers that it took me 16min to cover the 2.2km over the bridge - that was devastating.

At City 2 Surf, however, I loved it.  I wasn't planning on racing seriously - it's just one of those races that, even if you are/want to be a serious trail ultra runner, you just have to try it, because it's so stupidly fun that you'll grin like an idiot the whole way, no matter how much it hurts.

Last year I ran in costume.  Spectators and runners cheered for me the entire way, even though I was a mere midpacker. The fishnets provided good support and were cheaper than Skins.  When I finished, I met heaps of CoolRunners and spent all afternoon getting drunk with them.

Really - what more could you want? (Okay, other than 100 miles of trail.)

#38 Schtumpy

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 04:33 PM

View PostMikeF, on Jun 1 2004, 01:06 PM, said:

That would also make it steeper than the L'Alpe d'Huez in the Tour de France!

Hmm.
Correct except that l'Alpe d'Huez is 14.5kms long including 21 switchbacks which have very inconsistent gradients. It's also incredibly narrow due to the crazed, spitting, howling German & Dutch "fans" crowding the riders.
Also it's at the end of 187kms where you have already ridden 2 similar category climbs.
Also it's Stage 15 of the one race.
On the other hand, you have just had a rest day, your second in a fortnight, so you should be nice & fresh for the effort.
.....only a few more sleeps!