57 replies to this topic

[Jogger]

One of the hallmarks of a great event is the opportunity for all those involved to pass on their feedback so that we can make it even better next year.

I have recieved a lot of good feedback already but invite you to have your say - what was good, bad or ugly. I am also actively soliciting longer race reports or feedback to be added to our .

Some thoughts to get you thinking :

• Aid Stations - was there enough drink ?  did anything run out for the back markers ?
  
• Should we have anything else at the aid stations? gu ? coke ?!
  
  
• Km Markers - were they accurate ? were they easy to read ?
  
  
• Parking at Jenolan ?! Very difficult at such a small place and so many people ?
  
  
• The awards ? should there be more ? or less ? how can we give out many awards quickly ?
  
  
• The start - Seeded starts for top runners ? a 3rd wave ?

Also, you can just say what type of day did you have ? Did you have any fun ?

Kevin Tiller
Race Director
Six Foot Track Marathon
Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
http://www.sixfoot.com
46km of pleasure & pain

[LEN BRIERLEY]

THIS WAS MY 4TH RUN AND THERE WASNT NOTHING A RUNNER COULD WANT, EXCEPT A LITTLE MORE TRAINING. GREAT JOB DONE BY ALL PRETTY HARD ACT TO FOLLOW KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK

[Alan J Bradley]

What can i say other than thanks very much for a terriffic race again!!!It was well run & organised & the volunteers did yet again a fantastic job WELLDONE !!!! Congrads to the winners How they did the run in those times I will never know. Personally I did yet another PB of 5hrs 16mins and many thanks to my fellow runners from Westlakes Michael Morson & Michael Tully for the company and support in training & on the run. Once again welldone great effort & see you all again next year for my sixth 6ft track

[Derek]

Congratulations to all who finished and the handful that didn't....well there's always next year.

As the event timers we are responsible for accurate recording of all finishers and we take our job very seriously. So here are a couple of issues for you to consider.

1. For the first time we placed a sports clock on the course. Was it of any value and should it be considered for next year?

These would come under the heading "Not complying with the race rules"

2. One entrant, it appears, handed in their chest bib during the race and retired. After a break the entrant felt that it was possible to finish within the time.
This was achieved but without the bib was not recorded as a finisher. Also there was no evidence of which wave the entrant started in. As the entrants would have incurred a time penalty (ie: the rest time), should there be an allowance for participants to retrieve their bib and continue as long as they haven't been passed by the sweepers?

3. There are some entrants who still wear their "CHEST" bib on their back. This makes it difficult to recognise them as entrants during the race and impossible to time at the finish. Should they be penalised or disqualified (timers recommendation)?

4. It is fun for finishers to have their friends finish with them but this is a very dangerous action. The friend/relative is a hindrance to the timers, they can be timed as they cross the finish line and will effect the placing of all finishers behind them. In one instance a small child crossed the finish line, it's not hard to consider the possibility of an 80kg runner hurtling towards a 15kg child, after 46.6km it is very hard to pull up, as you all would appreciate. Also any unregistered person anywhere on the course would not be covered by any insurance. Should any runner who invites a non registered person to finish with them have their rights to awards removed but still be timed and issued with a medal (timers recommendation)?

Presentation.
5. Of the 540 official finishers, 231 had finished before 5hrs 30mins (12:30pm) these included all of the places in the categories.
If an allowance of 1hr is made to collate results and establish the 15min wave start difference could there be an award ceremony at 1:30pm and then the issue of the belts, buckles, team awards etc at the finish of the race?

I know that this is one of my more serious submissions to the BB but we would like to offer you the best possible service.

We'll see you either at the Mudgee Marathon in August or Jindabyne "Australia's Highest" Marathon in November.

[Derek]

Sorry, it's been a tough weekend, the race started at 8:00am not 7:00am so the first presentation would be at 2:30pm and the second would be at around 3:30-4:00pm as usual.
Of course the staff will still be there from 5:00am until after 5:00pm.

Another thought is how many stay overnight in and around Katoomba and could there be a place to distribute bibs in Katoomba from, say, 6pm to 8pm on the Friday to ease the registration queues on the morning?

[JohnLindsay]

RESPONSES TO KEVIN AND DEREK'S POINTS

Check in ... couldn't believe how trouble free it was.  Heard others say the same thing.  No need for Friday night pick up (I dislike this duplication of effort so common at big marathons where pick up is the day before)

Start ... no problems from my point of view.  

Aid stations ... plenty of them - more than enough.  Boxes of snakes were GREAT - swallowed lots of them, and that made a difference towards the end.

KM markers ... easy to read, but I question the 15.2 to go one or the 10.6 to go one - one of them felt wrong.

Sports clock ... never saw it.

Person who handed in bib and then continued ... should be able to go on if the person stays ahead of the sweeper - first time runners sometimes mis-judge the ability to recover with rest and carbo.

Bib on back ... isn't that a breach of the rules?  If so, don't record their times.

OTHER POINTS

T-shirts ... liked the colours, but smallest available was XL when we got there just after 7 am.  I liked last year's logo better - suggest you consider adopting that as the standard for all 6 foot T shirts in future, with colour being the variant year to year.

Rubbish on path ... I cannot believe the laziness and thoughtfulness of people who dump empty GU packets, Gatorade bottles and the like on the trail.  In some races you are disqualified and refused entry to future events if found to be an offender in this.  One approach would be to have a "DOB A LITTERER" component to the program (maybe a bit big brother).  Do the sweepers carry a bag to pick this up?  They shouldn't have to of course, but it surely is bringing our event into disrepute with the other track users.

Photographers ... a welcome addition to the event.

[Jogger]

just had to comment on the note about being on the same day as the canberra tri. Six Foot has been first saturday in march since I was a little boy. The Sri Chinmoy race moved their event this year to coincide with tourism week in canberra and asked me to move Six Foot to fit in with with Canberra Tourism week. Sorry Can't do. Maybe Canberra Tourism week will be different next year - do they want me to move it again ? We have enough trouble booking a free week to suit all in the Blue Mountains, let alone the Canberra Tourist Commission.

[roger rigby]

Kevin, Congratulations for yet another brilliant 6FTT. Nothing I would change, however a few observations. I would like to know that a wheel has been over the course as I wasn't fully convinced by some of the distance markers. The hectic start is beyond solution it seems, but perhaps you need to consider another 'stagger'. The drink stations were excellent and I liked the 'snakes'. The pickup place for the bags at the end was a shambles and it took me a fair while to locate mine, simple to fix I would have thought. The new variation to the course (I didn't run last year) is tougher, but it is a good alteration as it is now a proper bush ultra without bitumen (just like Brinda!!) Roll on next year.

[Derek]

A couple of additions to the submission I made yesterday.
The USATF Road Race and Finish Line Manual offers the following recommendation re wave starts.
"most top 50-59 men and 40-49 women will be seeded in the first group. It id recommendrd that the first group also include ALL men over 60, women over 50 and all runners under 15 regardless or their estimated or projected time. These do not constitute a large fraction of the field and will insure that all award winners are in the first group."

If we replace 15yrs with 21yrs this years event would have given us 3 x U/21M, 11 X 50+F and 21 x 60+M, a total of 35 or approx 5% of the field.
This adjustment to the wave start would make the result collation much easier.

How do the 50+ Females and 60+ Males feel about surviving the steps in the first group?

In the USATF Rules of Competition the following are relevant to my previous submission.

"In any track event of 20,000 metres or more, or in any road race, a competitor may leave the road or track with the permission and under the control of a judge or other authorized official, providing that by going off or returning to the course the athlete does not lessen the distance to be covered."

I'm sure that this can be adapted to suit the event with the addition that the athlete can only re-enter the event before both sweepers.

"Every competitor must be provided with numbers, which must be conspicuously worn whan competing. The numbers are to be worn as issued (cutting and folding is not permitted). If one number is provided, it must be worn visibly on the front. If a singlet is not worn (see below) the number should be worn on the shorts. The front number MUST be visible at all check points and at the finish"

Explains itself.............doesn't it.

Re singlets their rule is: "In hot weather, an athlete competing in a long distance race may compete without a top or shirt" but it also states that "The clothing must be made of a material which is non transparent even if wet"

I can find no reference to the sex in these rules so I assume that it applies to both men and women which would make some of the American races very interesting. Also what's the point of a rule about the transparency of the clothing if all are allowed to go topless.

[Jogger]

Kelvin - you're on drugs mate : Six Foot has never had coke. But you never know, your dreams might come true one day ...

[Katie Gleeson]

:)       - these were the series of emotions I experienced over the run!
But what a FANTASTIC race and day!

CONGRATULATIONS to all involved - you made it possible me to indulge in an awe-inspiring life experience. THANK YOU - especially the firies.

A few things that would have been useful for me out on the course(given my lack of planning but not critical in the scheme of things) were vaseline and sun-block.

And I would love to enter a running race one day where I can buy a funky t-shirt that I can actually wear ie smaller female cuts rather than big unisex potato sacks (even the smalls are massive!). I'm sure most of the other 90-odd female finishers would agree.

But these are just selfish needs that should not overshadow a tremendous race! Here's cheers to you!

[Derek]

Regarding Guy Broadbent's comment about recognition.
Is a downloadable certificate a possibility.
Preformatted artwork with a field for name and bib number linked to a datebase would enough to auto insert place, time and age category.
The finishers could then print onto their own certificate paper. This could be a very cost efficient and popular exercise.
If back dated, certificates for previous previous runners could be downloaded as well.

What do you think?

[Jogger]

I didn't really want to make any comments on the board - and just use it to cultivate feedback so that we could then decide what to do better next year, but the esteemed Hugh's points were both ones I wanted to comment on :

1) As an 8 time finisher of the event I found myself that some stations were waaay too close together, so I asked the previous Race Director, Big Chris, who explained it :
The race was set up to have aid stations every 5 km or so, with marshalls at all the major turnoffs to stop people going wrong. The marshalls enjoyed the experience so much that they turned up the next year fully kitted up to be an aid station. Well, we could REMOVE aid stations if that's what the runners want, but that seems silly. No one is forcing you to stop at everyone ! Who can possibly tell someone that an aid station is not required ? And if they moved it, we'd then have to have marshalls etc to cover the now-exposed turnoff. I think that it adds to the quirkiness to have aid stations that are TOO frequent - how many races can you complain about that at ?

2) Km markers. OK some were not very accurate last year and this year was the same. Point taken, they will be fixed next year. PROMISE. (There is only so much that can be done at one time). Part of the issue is making sure that a position from one year is used again the next. It is very hard to give someone a sign and say "put it here" unless the "here" is extremely well defined. We will measure the course using GPS over the next year and have more accurate km marks. Some of the latter aid stations had moved when the course was changed and obviously some of the old signs are being used.

[DMH]

The run hurts like hell, but I would love to see coke available in the second half of the run. its fairly easy to get in rather than snakes etc.

[Ray Wales]

Hi Kevin and all six foot track runners

These comments are from someone who enters the six foot track with the aim of completing the course in the 7 hour time limit.

1. For me and some of my friends, coke at the aid staions in the later part of the race would be brilliant. If the organisers include it this would be brilliant. However, it would be so good if you could send coke (or what ever you think you need) to specific aid stations. When you are struggling in the last sections it could make the difference between finishing or pulling out.

2. A three wave start would improve the congestion down Nellies Glenn. It takes something like 20 minutes to get the first 2k completed. This could be the difference between a dnf and a sub 7 hour run.

3. It wories me how long it would take to get help to a seriously injured runner in the Nellies Glenn section, the narrow section into the Cox's River and the last section into Jenolan Caves. I feel there should be marshalls on foot in these sections in case of a bad fall. Taking marshals from drink stops where there is plenty of help and asking them to cover these isolated areas would be reasuring. (not to set up drink stops - just to give assistance and radio for help if required)

4. The awards are quite adequate. We run this event for its own reward. The extra awards this year were like icing on the cake.

5. Keep up the policy of not paying starting money to elite athletes. There is enough of this in other events. This event still maintains an integrity that many event have lost.

6. I think the cut off to the Cox's River is too tight for slow runners. This is especially so with the hold up down Nellies Glenn. If you try to maintain an even slow pace you start to get worried that you will not make the first check point on time and be asked to pull out. For those of us who just make the cut, we sem to have to go too quick in the first section then really struggle over Black Range. Curiously the two hours allowed from the Cox's River to the pluviometer does not seem as bad as the 2h 5m allowance for the first section.

This run must be the best long distance event in Australia. It is good value for money and extremely well run. Please do not take my comments as negative as I have completed three events and can not praise the run enough.

[Jogger]

I received an email from one of our runners (which I responded to) but just wanted it recorded here for others to see, and pay attention to - so please be careful out there :

First,  I must say that it was a challenging and difficult race but I think I am glad I had a go at it. It was very well organised an the support on the course was great.

However, I have to admit to a major down side. At the start of the race a guy deliberately pushed me out of his way on our way to the steps. As a result I went over on my ankle. At the time I assumed I had twisted it and that I could run it out - big mistake. By the time I crossed the finish line I was a mess. My foot was swollen like a ballon and the only things that kept me moving we my husban and son.

I went to see the First Aid people who made various suggestions but couldn't determine exactly what I had done. ... On Mon I managed to get into a physio who arranged for me to have an x-ray.
It turns out that I have a capsular avulsion of the lateral aspect of talocalcaneal joint, including bony fragments from the calcaneum. In other words the ligment was torn off the bone, breaking it in the process.

As you can imagine, I am less than happy with this news. It will be some time before I can go back to running and there is no way my husband will let me run the race again. This is a bit disappointing as I think I would like to have another go now that I know what I am in for but if I do I will request bodyguards to protect me at the start of the race.

It was unfortunate that the man concerned was so obsessed with his time that he felt it necessary to push a fellow runner over - and yes, it was clearly deliberate. As a suggestion, perhaps the number of starts should be increased so that the number of runners in each start is reduced. Then maybe people won't get so concerned about being held up.

I would be interested to hear your view on this. I am not at all critical of the organisers or the race, only the man in the Sydney Striders shirt who felt he needed to push me out of his way.

[Derek]

Deliberately pushed over? I would like to se this claim justified.

Was anything said  or was there and action by the attacker to prove his intent?

I have been involved in this sport for a very long time and have never seen, nor heard of, any praticipant deliberately pushing over another.

In the hustle and bustle of the start it is possible that a runner could trip and the nearest body becomes a victim of the momentum. This is most likely.

Only the inexperienced race at the start of any event, especially when there is over 46k to go. My experience tells me that the Sydney Striders members are generous and sharing runners and are very unlikely to show any agression towards other runners, in fact are more likely to offer support and allow others plenty of space so that incidents like this don't happen.

It would like to see responses to the above message to offer the following information.

From the victim: an outline of the events prior to fall.
From any Sydney Strider, as they usually start together, did any of you act in any manner deliberately or accidently that would have caused the incident.
From any other entrant: did anyone see a fall at the start and if so did you see how it happened?

I feel very strongly about this, and while I feel for the victim, I cannot imagine that any runner - particularly in this race - would commit such a bastardly act.

By the way I am not a member of the Striders and would just like to know the truth regarding such a serious allegation.

I simply can't believe that, no matter how determined one is to complete the Six Foot Track, assault would be considered as method used to achieve a result. Runners generally are such a social and friendly bunch that if any one saw such an action the shock and dismay would have been the discussion point among many at and after the finish. We heard nothing so either no one saw it or if they did could see no malice in it.

If I am wrong then so be it, there is no place in our sport for this type of action and I would be quite happy to refusal of entry to all events we organise.