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#1 the fun run man

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 08:47 PM

how stupid is the walk?it's not even a sport.
they should get rid of it from the commonwealth &
olympic games.

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#2 bethroid

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 08:56 PM

I am not going to dignify that with a response.

#3 gone the distance

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:30 PM

I Will  "HA HA"

#4 Rudolf

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:33 PM

Well Your ego must be colapsing, when You realize, You could not run as fast and as far as the walkers walk.
To safe Your ego, You decided to destroy the race walk.
Could You at least beat women race walkers ?

You know, You can always learn to run faster

#5 Hands & Heels

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:41 PM

I (with the greatest respect) dare any of the pro walking crowd to go & ask the average person in the street what they think of walking as a sport. They may get a popular response in these pages but It'd be short odds any more that 5% reckon it's any good.

Each to their own I suppose.

#6 Vurt

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:41 PM

is it insecurity because they can walk faster than you can run ?

#7 Hands & Heels

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:43 PM

Make that LONG odds 5% of the public reckon it's any good.

Too busy bagging walking to chech my english.

#8 Hands & Heels

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:47 PM

Vurt, they probably can but knowing that doesn't keep me awake at night I'm afraid.

#9 Big Mac

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:58 PM

I was cheering these athletes on as much as any of the others!

Some old statistics:


World's Fastest Marathon and 50K Walkers

Who is the fastest marathon walker in the world?

That is subject to some interpolation because the longest official racewalks are 50 kilometers, which exceeds the standard 42 kilometer marathon distance. There are several impressive times which give runners a good chase.

Carlos Mercenario Cabajal

Mercenario's 1997 marathon time was 3:21:54. His personal best at 50K is his 1991 mark of 3:42:03

Andrei Perlov

Andre's 50 kilometer time of 3:37:41 in 1989 is his personal best, beating his 1991 Olympic gold finish in the 50K. Even more impressive is that this is a road race time, not a track time. That means he walked through the marathon in under 3:05.

Thierry Toutain

Set a mark of 3:40:57 in a world record 50 kilometer track time in September 1996.  Assuming steady pace, he went through the marathon (42.195 km) in 3:06:28.

Ann Jannson

Finished in 3:38 at the NYC marathon one of the years she competed in that event.

#10 wilsa

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:01 PM

Please learn how to spell Rudloph...

#11 Davo

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:06 PM

quote:


how stupid is the walk?  

How stupid is bowls?
How stupid is clay pigeon shooting?
How stupid, for that matter, is running marathons?
And who cares what the man in the street thinks?
Good on 'em, say I.

If you stand back and look, you can say "how stupid" is any activity over and above the basic instincts of food, shelter and reproduction.

#12 drapes

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:14 PM

Very well said Davo!!

Go Mottram!

#13 Slow release

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:15 PM

I agree Mr Fun Run Man.  Ban walking !!!

""When runners are too tired to run, make them sit on a chair until they recover enough to hold a perfect running style again"".

We could have some judges in charge of the chairs.  Would you like to volunteer?

I know people who think that "all sport and exercise is stupid and a waste of time".  No one will ever convince them otherwise.

Why can't the marathon be changed to the correct original distance of 24.8 miles? Then we could give a sack of gold coins to those who broke two hours.

#14 Action

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:21 PM

I applaud the performances of the 6 Aussies, and recognise them as great athletes, but unless the walk community accept electronic judging then walking should be dropped from competitions.

#15 Peterhorse

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:26 PM

i'm sure the badminton and ping pong (er..table tennis) players probably won't be watching Buster tonight with any empathy, but hopefully they aren't criticising the event.

you gotta walk before you run...so, seems natural enough? i nearly passed out when heard the times - faster than my 1k repeats - i think they're awesome athletes!!! (whilst supporting them, i want to make it perfectly clear, i am not advocating a crawling event  :D  )
go Aussie go!!
PH

#16 Simmo

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:29 PM

I'm with you Fun Run Man. Obviously they didn't have enough judges out on the courses today (or maybe all the judges were Australian?). Nobody, repeat nobody walks 20 or 50 km without lifting, so the whole lot of'em should be disqualified. As for the comments about walkers being faster than runners, true I probably couldn't beat a fit young (I won't dignify them with the description 'elite') race walker over a marathon, but then I've never run a marathon and don't train for it. I reckon I'd beat them over any distance from 100m to 10km, and I'm 59. No race walker my age would beat me over any distance. And at least I don't look like a dorky, waddling duck!

#17 Slow release

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:35 PM

Wouldn't it be better to ask the walkers how they feel about their sport?  They seem to accept the rules of walking, and enjoy the technical challenge.

Footie games have their yellow cards to chuck off players who break rules.

Why should non-walkers tell racewalkers what to do with their sport?

What exactly upsets people about racewalking?

Ian Thorpe got a disqualification for falling into the water.

Sprinters and swimmers used to always break at the start on purpose to upset other competitors, until the rules were tightened up.

Simmo, can you break the world 1,000m walk record of 3.12?

#18 megan77

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:46 PM

To you all,
I am a walker and proud to be. I dont care what the rest of the public think about our event, nor you. They dont have to choose to do it, and you dont have to enjoy it. Let me know when you all win your Gold, Silver and Bronze medals at any representative international meet in your chosen events. Then maybe i will take you a little more seriously.
Until then enjoy all the replays of us winning 6 medals and the others we will win on Friday!!

#19 Simmo

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:06 AM

The problem is that a tiny minority sport like race-walking (and synchronised swimming + a few others) is in the Olympic and Commonwealth Games, when there are far more deserving and popular sports that are not. So I'm not against walkers per se, just don't want to see, hear or read loads of rubbish about them every two years.

#20 djl

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:20 AM

quote:


Originally posted by Action:
I applaud the performances of the 6 Aussies, and recognise them as great athletes, but unless the walk community accept electronic judging then walking should be dropped from competitions.

Won't everyone get disqualified if they bring in electronic judging?

#21 TRAVY

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:20 AM

I can not see that race walking is any more or less silly than race running

tally  
Australia 34 30 27
England 14 17 15
India 11 8 3

#22 JourneymanPhil

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:22 AM

How can I word this without polarising the Australian athletic community and/or this message board? Good to see some people on this board that are accepting racewalking as a sport and as part of the Australian athletic community.

First up to quote from the web site of Nathan Deakes:

"THE SPORT OF RACE WALKING
Race Walking is classified as a "technical sport". This means it is judged in order to enforce rules. Judges are positioned around a course to ensure that competitors comply with the rules.

Electronic aids are not used in judging competitions, because the rules stipulate any breach of the regulations must be visible to the naked eye.

RULES OF RACE WALKING
There are two rules of Race Walking:

Loss of contact:The athlete must have one foot on the ground at all times.

Bent knee:The moment the advancing foot touches the ground until the leg has reached a vertical position, that leg must be straight (ie. not bent at the knee).

CAUTIONS, WARNINGS AND DISQUALIFICATION
When a judge sees an athlete in danger of breaking a rule, he or she may caution the athlete. This is done by displaying a yellow paddle with the offence identified by a symbol on each side - (>) for knees or (~) for contact.

When a judge considers an athlete to be breaking a rule, the judge issues the athlete with a warning.

This is non-verbal, but in major championship races, a board is present to alert the athletes of their warnings.

Three warnings and the athlete will be shown a red paddle which indicates they are disqualified."

I will now comment on some of the individual responses in this thread:

SAE said: "I (with the greatest respect) dare any of the pro walking crowd to go & ask the average person in the street what they think of walking as a sport. They may get a popular response in these pages but It'd be short odds any more that 5% reckon it's any good."

Umm - The average person has been fed on a diet of NRL, AFL and cricket. As someone else said, they would probably struggle with the concept of a 10km Fun Run!

Action said " but unless the walk community accept electronic judging then walking should be dropped from competitions."

Umm - Go back to what I quoted at the beginning of my response!

This is the "Classic"

Simmo said "I'm with you Fun Run Man. Obviously they didn't have enough judges out on the courses today (or maybe all the judges were Australian?). Nobody, repeat nobody walks 20 or 50 km without lifting, so the whole lot of'em should be disqualified. As for the comments about walkers being faster than runners, true I probably couldn't beat a fit young (I won't dignify them with the description 'elite') race walker over a marathon, but then I've never run a marathon and don't train for it. I reckon I'd beat them over any distance from 100m to 10km, and I'm 59. No race walker my age would beat me over any distance. And at least I don't look like a dorky, waddling duck!"


Why cant you accept Simmo that the technique of the Australian walkers was good and they have bloody well worked hard at it! And unless you are a champion Masters Athlete, I think I would know some 59 year old racewalkers that would give you a run/walk for your money!

Megan77 - Well Said.  :)  

Just to remind people, Im an Administrator for a national running association. I mainly walk in events now as Im a better walker than runner. I still do some running when I train. I have a couple of ambitions within areas I want to conquer in the walking world!   :)  

Im very disapointed to read the piggish, arrogant attitude that obviously exists with some runners on this forum and outside this forum towards racewalkers. Australia is one of the top five nations for racewalking in the world and were going to be up there for a few years yet. It is possible that Nathan Deakes could have the standout performance of the Game if he wins a seocnd Gold on Friday in the 50km walk!  ;)  

Lets all start playing in the same sandpit Kids and respect each other's abilities, differences and talents.  :)  

Go Craig Mottram tonight!

Regards

Phil

#23 spark driver

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:32 AM

If people can class motor racing or horse racing a sport, I can't see the problem with walking.

Any event where a individual can test their personal limits, unaided by engine or beast, is sport enough for me.

#24 Sleepy

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:33 AM

Hi, I think FWIW all persons who are prepared to give of their lives the dedication that it takes to be an international athlete deserve our support and respect. (They are even more focused than most coolrunners.......)

Having said that though, the walk at this level is a silly action, at least running is natural action that looks smooth and effortless. (Except some of the running I do which looks ...hmmmm... interesting)

#25 Aki

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:37 AM

When injured, I tried walking to keep fit, and what a liar it made out of me!

It's exhausting, gruelling, and very hard to get right.  I can't believe the brilliance of these walkers and that they go faster than I run.

Amazing, and it was good to see Cheryl get a medal.  :)

#26 Big Mac

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:37 AM

Well put Megan77!

#27 Simmo

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:40 AM

Interesting rules - Assuming one foot or the other hits the gound 50,000 times in a 50km race, how could that possibly be judged fairly and accurately for all the competitors? And since the essence of sport is fairness, how can race walking be called a 'sport'?

#28 bethroid

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:45 AM

nm

#29 Slow release

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:49 AM

Wilsa, please learn to spell Rudolph's name.  You got the "l" in the wrong place.

Simmo, racewalkers are pretty switched on, they understand the rules and the tolerances allowed, and if they get red cards, they don't sulk or have legal appeals like the footie club players who try to deny they punched someone. And they don't get drunk and smash up night clubs.

#30 plu

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:51 AM

There has been a bit of negativity creeping into Cool Running at the moment.  

The existence of this thread has tipped me over, though the respondents have kept perspective..  

In fairness this is not the only thread. There are a  few other threads particularly concerning the games developing a similar trait.  

Surely we can tolerate individual differences of opinions and show  respect for other sports. There are a number of "opinion" threads which manage to do this well.

Why  not work from the perspective that the cup is half full rather than half empty.

Sorry for being touchy.  I guess I am a bit nervous for Buster.

Cheers  Plu

#31 JourneymanPhil

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:01 AM

What does nm mean Bethroid?  :)

#32 Rudolf

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:09 AM

It is interesting, that lots of alsorunners, are not attcking events like hammer throw, or womens shot put, or triple jump, or lots of othere T&F events.
These alsorunners only seems to have problem with walking.
What is good with walking, that it does go straight to the right distances, 20, 50km,
no silly 1,2 or 3and3/4 laps etc, or some other silly measurements like 42195metres or some funny stuff in miles.

Running would benefit from this example, to have 20 and 50km.

There is a track 100km australian walk championship coming in 4 weeks and I am posting my entry in.

#33 bethroid

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:12 AM

Sorry Phil - it means nevermind. I did a post and thought about the posting guidelines and well, I thought I better get rid of it.... being a walker in Little A's and competing in the same races as Jane, Nat and Cheryl (in my previous life LOL), needless to say I was a little peed.....

#34 DJ Hawkins

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:14 AM

I a not a walker and have no particular liking for the sport myself so my comments are unbiased. I am just so suprised at so many people on this thread being so negative. These athletes train as hard as any other athletes and I think there performances should be commended, just like any other athlete. race walkning isn't easy. has anyone here that is bagging it actually tried it? As far as race walking being a sport, if it's not well what is it? It's been around as long as I can remember.

I think if you don't like it then don't watch it and don't comment about it. As the saying goes, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

Congrats to the walkers today too. And for that matter, congrats to all of our athletes. Winners or not.

DJ

#35 JourneymanPhil

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:17 AM

Well said DJ!

Bethroid - Keep the faith!  :)  

Rudi - good luck with it at Coburg. You have plenty of time to get the 100km completed!

#36 Slow release

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:38 AM

Great 100m by Powell, could have gone 9.9, but clearly eased off with big lead at finish.

#37 JourneymanPhil

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 01:04 AM

Bit of a change in topic Slow Release?

#38 the fun run man

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 01:27 AM

it's a bit silly when the result of a sport(not really a sport)is decided by who got caught for
cheating & who got away with cheating.they should
all be disqualified.

#39 MrBark

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 01:34 AM

why are we responding to this troll...?  :unsure:

#40 Colin

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 01:38 AM

Walking is a sport that is here to stay and obviously enjoyed by many.

However, then they should be held by the standards they set for themselves, the most fundamental of which is that they should WALK.

Forget about electronic, you could see with the naked eye at real speed that they were running.

I've seen many runners with a similar shuffling style doing those sorts of speeds.

#41 chookrunner

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 01:52 AM

Hey Simmo,

What a brave statement - "No racewalker my age could beat me over 100m to 10k".

Whoopee. Ian Thorpe swimming can't beat me over any distance while I'm walking.

However, if you wanted to beat Victoria's (and the world's) best 59 year old racewalker on adjusted times you would have to run a 33 minute 10K.
In a straight race you would have to run 47 minutes while he walks.

What's your 10K time?

#42 Sawadee

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 02:02 AM

Although I have never done it, I find race walking very interesting to watch! I always seem to be looking at their feet to see if they stuff up! The judges around the course must have very good eyesight!
  I once heard somewhere that Australian Olympic walking legend, Dave Smith, had the highest VO2 max ever recorded at the Australian institute of sport. This is very impressive! Maybe if Dave Smith hadn't found running so dreadfully boring he could have been the best distance runner Australia has ever seen.
  One thing I don't understand about this sport is the cautions? How many chances do they get? In a walking race 100m from the finish line with no cautions, sprinting the last 100 in 13 seconds seems a good way to use up a caution without being disqualified!  :)

#43 Sawadee

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 02:02 AM

Although I have never done it, I find race walking very interesting to watch! I always seem to be looking at their feet to see if they stuff up! The judges around the course must have very good eyesight!
  I once heard somewhere that Australian Olympic walking legend, Dave Smith, had the highest VO2 max ever recorded at the Australian institute of sport. This is very impressive! Maybe if Dave Smith hadn't found running so dreadfully boring he could have been the best distance runner Australia has ever seen.
  One thing I don't understand about this sport is the cautions? How many chances do they get? In a walking race 100m from the finish line with no cautions, sprinting the last 100 in 13 seconds seems a good way to use up a caution without being disqualified!  :)

#44 JourneymanPhil

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 09:06 AM

Colin said" However, then they should be held by the standards they set for themselves, the most fundamental of which is that they should WALK."

Did I miss something Colin? Which one's werent walking?  :rolleyes:    :unsure:

#45 Colin

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 09:28 AM

quote:


Originally posted by JourneymanPhil:
Did I miss something Colin? Which one's werent walking?   :rolleyes:      :unsure:  

Take your pick  :)  

It was previously stated here that it should be visible to naked eye at normal speed--that's what I was observing--maybe there's even more to it that I'm not aware of, if so sorry.

#46 alisonjc

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:15 PM

I was in LaTrobe St on Sunday watching the marathone runners and down at Docklands at lunchtime yeterday watching the walkers - and it was, each time, as always, a pleasure to see elite athletes doing their best. I'm dismayed at the petty mindedness and lack of recognition of excellence that some people on this thread have displayed.

#47 Rudolf

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:30 PM

This discussion is mixing together 2 topics, and the discussion is showing, there are certain thing, which needs to be improved - changed in race walking. For the race walking itself, and for the public/nonwalkers/runners perception of it.

The first point is :
Is the race walking a sport, is it a good sport ?
The answer is a big YES. And it is a very healthy sport, it is a cheap sport, You do not have to pay memberships fees, and buy expensive stuff, You can get away with cheaper shoes comparing to running. Race walking is perhaps more demanding than running, involves upper body more than running, it is half way between running and cross country skiiing. The VO2 measurements supports this statement.


Every sport needs to have the rules and the judges to reinforce them. There are sports, where the winners are decided by judging :
gymnastics, ice skating, synchronized swimming,
ski jumping, acrobatic skiing, dancing (kidding),
and lots of others.
In other sports, the winners are not decided directly by judging, but the judging can turn the results easily, all the games - decision about penalties, faults etc.
Take track cycling - breaking the rules and DQs.
Running on the track is also not that straightforward - You have the lines and the lanes, You cant cross, but sometimes You can cross, You can have interference on the hurdless,
You can have judge deciding on the valid high jump, depending, how long after the bar falls down, You can have judge decideng on validity or not of the throwing technique etc, You can have marathon runner DQs for blocking the access for other runner to the drink station .
And of course every sport has the drug cheating and the judges taking various approches to this issues, not always the same.

So Race Walking - has the rules and judges, and walkers breaking the rules and judges trying their best or not.
My view here is, that something needs to be done,
(I am not taking arguments of the type :
if it is not broken, do not fix it ! , just sometimes I do not bother to respond to it)

The race walking rules are to overcomplicated and too many .
The rule of straight knee, is not necessary.
Walking should have only 1 rule :
To keep the ground contact.
Thats it, That is walking.
You keep the contact, You walk, You do not keep contact, You run.

Do with Your knee, what You like.

In walking in ultra long distances (anything over 50km), the rules are relaxed, and basicaly it is just the rule of contact, so it is clear to everybody - You walk or You run.

At this stage of short race walking, it looks that judges are fully concentrating on the rule of proper technique - the knee position, like they are judging the dancing style. The walker,
who is loosing the form, because of tired and cramping muscless gets DQ, even the walker is maintaining the contact and walk slowly. This is very contradictory, and this is responsible for small number of participants.
The judges are somehow not the game to step in with the rule of maintaining the contact, so they judge the knee position.

The walkers than produce beautifull knee, and lift off slightly, and is OK with current judges.
So they lift off more. Where is that line, which says, You can break the contact just a little, but no more ??? That is hard question to answer, so as not to loose the judging job (and overseas travelling etc), lets not get there, and just judge the beautifull knees.

What I am saying, is, cancel all the rules about the technique, let walkers walk any way they like
and strictly reinforce the contact rule.

I have to say this : on the 20km walks at this CG
majority of walkers were breaking the contact rule, however were getting warnings only for the
technique - knees.

This situation makes the comparing the times, WR, PBs etc quite irrelevant, as it is dependant how much of noncontact is allowed on that particular race by the group of judges.

I am all for simplifying the rules, and reinforcing the contact rule. There is propably strong interest lobby group out there, which will not allow it in the near future, and that is not helping this beautifull and healthy sport

#48 djl

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:04 PM

quote:


Originally posted by JourneymanPhil:
SAE said: "I (with the greatest respect) dare any of the pro walking crowd to go & ask the average person in the street what they think of walking as a sport. They may get a popular response in these pages but It'd be short odds any more that 5% reckon it's any good."

Umm - The average person has been fed on a diet of NRL, AFL and cricket. As someone else said, they would probably struggle with the concept of a 10km Fun Run!


Bit off topic, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here Phil.  I don't think the problem is that the general public doesn't understand walking.  Surely you're not suggesting that it's more complicated than rugby league etc?

I've always had a problem with the fact that seemingly every time there is a thread in which the profile of athletics in this country is raised, someone has a shot at footy or cricket.  They're good sports and people like them.  If you prefer another sport, that's great, but it doesn't make other people misguided.  Personally, I can't stand soccer, which is the most popular sport in the world, but you don't hear me suggesting that the rest of the world is ignorant or that soccer's popularity is somehow a bad thing for the sports that I like.

cheers
djl

#49 djl

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:06 PM

PS - I know I'm about to be in trouble for calling it soccer.   :P

#50 HardnFast

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:29 PM

I don't see the point in race walking either. All race walkers at some stage in their races lose technique & break the contact rule. I think some race walkers probably try to build into their race plans stages where they on purpose break contact to go faster. It's not an even playing field & it's heartbreaking to see those 'unluckly' walkers Disqualified 20K into their events.  I say unluckly because I reckon most of the field would be disqualified if you could somehow monitor their technique every step of the way.