Hi,

Maybe this is a pipe dream but today I was prompted to think about getting some racing flats. I am quite a bad pronator and run in Brooks Beasts (all the time) and was wondering if there is a racing flat that might be more suited to someone with pronation?

I figure that for the occasional race this should not upset my feet/legs too much.

I am a pronator as well and race in Asics DS Trainers. My running shoe shop tells me they are the racing flats for pronators and I take his word for it. I have run up to 50km in them without any problems.

This post actually made by Horrie forgetting he is in my login.

Hi Sub50,
It will all depend on your body’s ability to adapt to the stress of racing flats. I have severely pronated feet and have found I can race with flimsy 5mm neutral flats every weekend with no troubles. However I know other people with more “normal” feet than me who can’t wear anything less than a high mileage shoe.
As Horrie/Bluebel suggested, I would start with a ‘light weight racer/trainer’ with some type of ‘medial support’ (eg: Brooks Axiom; Asics DS Trainer; Adizero Tempo; Nike Zoom Elite; Mizuno Elixer; New Balance 903 etc.) for racing and speed sessions, and then work from there.

Just bumping this thread with an additional question.. Do racing flats make much of a differancee to speed over say distances up to 3ks on a track?
I am a heavier runner who does a lot of mileage although recently I have started incorporating track sessions into my workouts, iddeally for a fitness test we run for work I would like to run sub 8 mins 30 secs for 2.4ks (the personal incentive level required for a person under 21) I am presently running 8min 40s in brooks GTS8s.
I am aware that I could improve this by doing more speedwork and less distance but I am curious on what other people have found..

My feet are flatter than a flat thing, and I have DS Racers too, I find them great. Haven't tried putting my new orthotics in them yet, they might lift my feet up too high, but in the small use they've had in a 3km race (part of a little tri) and some speedwork they've felt fab.

Osmo I think it'd make more difference over a short race as you'd be running harder I guess? So trying to run fast you'd notice them being lighter than normal trainers.. I certainly feel how heavy my shoes are when I try to go faster. Plus they simply feel great on, couldn't hurt to at least imagine yourself faster with lovely little flats on your feet, haha! I've used flats for my speedwork before, it's much nicer than lumbering along in heavy support shoes.

Sub50

I use brooks addictions and orthotics to keep my pronation issues under control in training and use Mizuno Elixir's(without my orthotics) for racing anything up to half marathons without any issues

I dont think the elixir's are classified as racing flats but they are a light weight shoe (approx 9 ounce) that seems to work for me



Regards

Kirko

Any flat you look at will be a significant reduction in weight and more importantly, support. Beasts are built for those at the significant end of the pronation scale (and are brick heavy too), and you're wearing them and not a lighter shoe for the degree of support and/or because of your size. Flats are at the opposite end (apologies for the captain obvious statement)

Like others have suggested, a lightweight stable trainer rather than a flat is a more viable option, and Duffman's suggestions are spot on. While not as light as flats, the difference is marked when you've been doing must of your work in clunkers. If it turns out lightweights end up being too much shoe, then a flat might well be on the agenda.

Does the "occasional" race warrant a purchase that may do more harm than good?

Saucony Grid Fastwitch 3

www.authaust.com.au

I am a 90kg+ pronator and I can recommend Mizuno Wave Revolvers as a racing flat/short to mid distance lightweight trainer. They also have a very soft feel to them and are very comfortable. I don't think they are sold here in Australia. I bought mine on-line from a US retailer so if you have a look at the major on-line sites and ebay you should find some. I believe they may have even been superceded recently by Mizuno with a whole new model name so you may be able to pick up the older model I'm recommending even cheaper.

I am a pronator (although I have very light frame) and I would not even consider racing in anything other than racing flats, especially for short races. The shoes make a big difference in how my feet respond. I can not push off the balls of my feet and get up any speed much in stiff heavy trainers. I usually put my orthotics (light flexible ones) in the racers though. I do all my track work & racing in racing flats and do my longer slower runs in trainers (usually Brooks Adrenaline). Trying to run fast in heavy stiff trainers is very difficult. My stride just feels so flat.

Given you run in the Brooks beast you might like to try the Brooks ST3 racer - closer to a lightweight trainer than a racer but offers quite good support for a fairly light shoe.

I can also recommend the Mizuno Elixir as a light training shoe/ racing flat substitute.

As someone who pronates I've generally found racing flats to be OK since by definition they have a firm ride. It's the shoes with a lot of cushioning that are the ones to avoid since they actually allow your foot to rotate more than if you were running barefoot.

If you want the best option it would be to get orthotics. This also has the advantage of broadening the range of shoes you can run in.

If you currently wear Brooks, there's a good chance you have wide feet? Which probably nullifies this suggestion, but for what it's worth, the Adizero Manas are a very lightweight trainer (~210g) with relatively good pronation control:

http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-AAZMM5.html

I'd certainly recommend trying some Adizeros on first though.. I swear by them but they're generally a narrow fit so not for everybody! (For reference I currently race and sometimes train in Adizero CS which are similar to the Manas, minus the pronation control.)

As a Podiatrist in Sports Medicine, this is a bit of a pet topic for me. Most comments above are correct...notice the common theme though...very individual. If you wear Beasts, then likely you overpronate at your REARFOOT (as soon as you make heel contact). The trick with going to a DS Trainer or Zoom Elite, is that they provide some pronation control at the MIDFOOT. The danger here is blistering through the arch, as your rearfoot pronates unsupported, with a midfoot support jamming up under the arch. A mid weighted shoe is smart however. I race in the DS trainer over ironman and marathon distances, and it is perfect for either heavier athletes/longer distances/or those who have never worn racing shoes. You should go to a specialty running store and run in them to assess fit and feel.

A lighter shoe with a bit of REARFOOT support is the Brooks ST Racer. If testing them at a store, put a ST Racer on 1 foot and a DS on the other. You will note the difference immediately.

If you have a history of injury to the lower limb, then you may in fact use a training shoe, but with less weight than the beast, again with REARFOOT control. I have a couple of patients who use the Brooks Trance as a 'race shoe' even though of course it is a training shoe. This way you get a much lighter shoe, but with a lot of cushioning and moderate rearfoot control.

Hope this helps!

RWO - so why do the shoe companies not tell us where the control is.
There must be a big difference between someone who pronates in teh rear foot vs a mid foot or forefoot pronation. Or is there?

ASICS Bandito. Can't recommend them enough. The support is sufficient enough for me to use them as a trainer. Only thing is they are hard to find and cost about $200 RRP