After seeing Bryan and Kelvin carving up trails in Nike Frees and a lady at work getting about in them who has massive feet issues due to rheumatoid arthritis, I thought I'd get myself a pair. So I did get some and after much walking around in them I thought I'd use them for my running but was cautioned about not running too far in them. So I thought I would just do a short half marathon in them rather than a long half marathon.

So yesterday, I ran home from work (21km conveniently,) in them aided by my trusty super socks and all went well. So I thought I would run back to work this morning and felt fantastic so I started to push and a niggling knee ligament twanged and slowed me down for a bit, but otherwise all the usual problems went away. So for the first time in ages I had no sore right ankle, left heel, both planta fascia, both soleus, right 5th metatarsal. I would also point out that I normally run like crap in the morning as I am usually pretty stiff from the run the night before.

Am I going to root my feet/legs long term by doing this? Should I be mixing it up with my other shoes? I only have a short amount of time before Youyangs and I want the best shot possible at beating maggot

Brizza, Steve the Footman and Ben Hur, I would be interested in your opinion in the technical aspects of the shoes rather than just the feel of them. I did get bright red ones so they should make me go faster .

I have no idea what the technical aspects are but....

i have the 3.0

The longest i have run in them is 50km trail. Last year I did the 6 foot track, hellgate Canberra Marathon and Gold Coast Marathon in them. they are my favourite shoe. I did find that my feet started to hurt when i did a lot of miles in them and have moved to asics trainers for long runs but still run many training miles in my 3.0.

If you want to mix up your footware you should alternate with the Vibram Five Fingers

maybe one day...but I will have to drink lot of beer and that would probably render me incapable of ordering on line or making it to the shop.

tim you might want to quantify "lot of miles" for the casual reader - was that just runs more than 100km in a single go ?

"So yesterday, I ran home from work (21km conveniently,) in them aided by my trusty super socks and all went well. So I thought I would run back to work this morning and felt fantastic so I started to push and a niggling knee ligament twanged and slowed me down for a bit, but otherwise all the usual problems went away. So for the first time in ages I had no sore right ankle, left heel, both planta fascia, both soleus, right 5th metatarsal. I would also point out that I normally run like crap in the morning as I am usually pretty stiff from the run the night before.

Am I going to root my feet/legs long term by doing this? Should I be mixing it up with my other shoes? I only have a short amount of time before Youyangs and I want the best shot possible at beating maggot "


Hi Rob, I had to laugh when I read this. Not at you, but at human nature and runners alike (myself included). You wonder if you are buggering yourself up by feeling good in the nike frees?!?!? Let's look at it in reverse. Ok,When you run in your other shoes you get a sore right ankle,sore left heel, bilateral plantar fascitis,sore calves and right foot. Does that sound good? Me thinks not, it aint rocket science, run in the frees. cheers

Perhaps I am an ultra runner at heart - I keep agreeing with Tim! I too do all my training in Nike 3.0 (without insoles) - or barefoot - brilliant! I don't run as far as the crazy ultras but still manage over 100Km per week. But if you are changing shoes you should do it gradually - your legs/feet need time to adapt.

I too have been running in some recently-acquired lightweight red shoes. And yes, they go faster, but that's more because they are Adidas and Milov runs in Adidas .
Rob, I think you should train in the Vibrams, preferably on cement, or at least in the Nike Free 3.0s. And then on race-day, slip into a pair of trusty Brooks Beasts with full-length sorbothane in-soles. I think they're only a tiny bit heavier . And most ultra runners carry a couple of spare sets of shoes around in their pack during races too.
Maggot

Hi Rob,

There have been at least a couple of Nike Free threads on this forum which I have commented on. I should note that I have no affiliation with Nike... I just like the Free concept (& the Bowerman series). However, if someone from Nike is willing to offer me a job as a shoe designer & tester, whilst supporting a heavy training schedule (thus you get Podiatrist, designer, tester & runner... that's 4 for the price of 1) with accommodation close to Nike HQ in the Oregon forest... I will be willing to listen .

There are now three types of Nike Frees... the 7.0, the 5.0 & the 3.0. There is even a Nike Free Wikipedia on them. The Nike Free website may also be of interest.

Basically the shoe was designed with the intentions of somewhat mimicking barefoot running via reducing the heel height & reducing the restriction of the natural movement of the feet, thus why the sole is very flexible with very little 'upper' support i.e. very little heel counter support. These characteristics are also proposed to strengthen the lower limb muscles. The different numbering refers to the differing heel to forefoot gradients i.e. 7.0 has a higher heel than the 3.0. As you would have picked up on with the above links; Nike classify a 'normal' structured shoe as a '10.0' down to a bare foot as '0'... however, I find this classification a bit misleading as 'normal' structured shoes can have varying heel heights & support, but I understand why the context of the concept is used. I feel the majority of running shoe heel heights are too high & are a contributing factor for the development of adverse foot & lower limb kinetics (movement) & subsequently adverse forces which contribute to injury.

When Nike Free first came out there was only the 5.0. I started training in them when they first came into the country (about 2004) as I had heard rumours of their development a couple of years before. I have been training in a Nike Free ever since. From the 5.0 I next went into a 4.0, which Nike does not make anymore (which disappointed me at the time). I did a lot of miles in the 4.0 - virtually all my training was done in the shoe... long runs (up to 45km), tempo runs, road interval work, hill reps, recovery runs & trail runs. I got up to 185km a week in the 4.0 without any problems. I thought it was the perfect shoe for me, thus disappointed when the 4.0 was ceased.

When the 3.0 came out I thought it would be a bit on the flimsy side for the amount of training I was doing.

Now that I have been training in the 3.0 for well over a year I have found it to be the best shoe for me... it feels natural & comfortable.

I am personally not familiar with the feel of the 7.0 as I have never thought it appropriate for me at the stage when it first came out. The 7.0 came out later & I think it was designed to give runners a slighter transitional option in the Free range from a 'normal' structured shoe.



This sounds interesting.


When I first started running in a Free (5.0) I developed some knee pain but it gradually went away. I think the best thing to do is to gradually adapt to the new shoe (as Nike suggests). Everyone is going to be different to some degree... some may take longer to adapt than others. In my line of work I see all types of foot structures & biomechanics. Some people I feel would find it difficult to adapt to a Free due to its reduced support because their lower limb structure & alignment are too unstable thus excess movement & forces will not be controlled & subsequent soft tissues &/or joints will be stressed out too much thus causing them to meet their injury threshold too soon.


It sounds to me that the shoes are having some benefits to your biomechanics & subsequent injury threshold already.


Not knowing your biomechanics, but as per above... providing you adapt appropriately to the shoes... you should be fine. You need to play it by ear & listen to your body. Some may need to initially mix the wearing of other shoes whilst they adapt to a Free, but once you have adapted you should be fine to just wearing the Free in most cases.


They say that red can do that to you.


Good point Roffy.


Not wanting to get in between the duel between Maggot & yourself... I suggest you analyse to above post very carefully .

All the best!

Thanks everyone except maggot who sucks to the power of slow. My first 'proper' pair of runners (14 years ago were addidas grey and purple trail shoes that were so good I wore them to the point of the rubber sole wearing through and flapping about. I thought Milov runs in adidas as some sort handicap to even things up. oh yes and I will carry around a few house bricks and drink 10 doses of endura with double magnesium at the start with some of the funny tasting choclates at youyangs

Roffy, I think I have to point out my usual injuries were caused by bike riding and not by my shoes. Its just hasn't got better but it just freaked me out a bit that it felt so good and I was waiting for it to all fall apart.

Short half marathons are the ones you do when you tell someone you wont go out too long but you still want to do a few km.

Ben-Hur, I couldn't find any posts on the Free specifically other than what Nike's marketing had put out. If there is a company that I really don't want to support it is them but I couldn't find anything like it from any other shoe company. If you can run 185km in a week in 4.0's that is enough to satisfy my that it is worth transitioning over to these.

The only problem is now that with these fine looking shoes and sock combination I am worried that women and maybe maggot may fall pregnant just by watching me run by....

What do people run in when they don't run in free's? What do free wearers race in?

I'd like to try out either Nike Free 5.0 or 3.0. Where in Melbourne is the best place to buy a pair?

Nike factory outlet, Smith St, Collingwood is the best place to find them - best price too

Greenborough Athletes foot because the chick who owns the franchise is a crazy ultra runner and just did some big run in mexico just recently. Who gives a damn about the price, got to support the ones doing the sport.....But the Nike outlet is the cheapest.

Nike store in Doncaster Shoppingtown.

rightyo then done 4x21km on (thurs fri mon Tues) and my feet are tired and nasty ankle pain started and I still have to manage the knee problem from the other week. But this is still a lot more running sessions compressed than I would normally do and I did eat dairy and wheat last night which stuffed up my joints and back, and I did throw in a jaunt up Mt St Leonards to see the snow on the weekend and had to carry a heap of kiddies as well. So all in all they aren't quite as miraculous as I first thought but still seem to be better than what I had before.

One thing that I find particularly interesting is how much less effort it takes to control down hills than with a normal shoe.

Hi
Would Nike Free be appropriate for teenagers, please?

I have looked at the nike free's on several occassions. They seem so soft and squishy almost like the rubber will compress and permanently go flat after a few runs. I guess this isn't the case after what people are saying on here or are you all lightly little ferrets that only way 50kgs?

I think maybe these would make great racing flats and have seen them on special here and there.

Being a neutral shoe wearer, I've often thought the same - but then I remind myself I'm 80kg+ and steer myself away. Am I being overly cautious? (specific biomechanical issues per Ben Hur's post notwithstanding)

Rob,

You are some salesman, first of all your thread convinced me to get a pair of 2XU compression socks (love 'em,), now you've seriously got me considering trying these Nike Free's. What made you decide on the 5.)'s versus the 7.0's or the 3.0's?

i am 83kg.

I started in the 5.0 and then went to the 3.0. I have a feeling that on tech trail the heel of the 5.0 and the soft material of the shoe can leave you more open to rolling your ankle. But I am not sure.

Last year my best month in the 3.0 was 500km.

I have a feeling my foot pain was just not allowing sufficient time to adapt. Kind of like running 4x 21km when you first get the shoe.

I ran over 2000km in my 3.0 before I replaced them. They were sexy and red but my latest ones are black and no where near as fast.

Bummer .... I just bought my very first pair of Nike Frees ... they are black and the 3.0 version. I should have got the red ones.

but does that mean I have to run a decade in KT26's before I can safely transition to the Free?

Now there was a fine shoe.

I recently bought my 3rd pair of Nike Frees Nike Free 5.0 V4 because it has more support than the 3.0. I've loved running shorter distances only in each of them, starting with the royal blue ones when they first came out; went on to the red/black (the fastest definitely) & now baby blue!

Click to view attachment

Does this colour change indicate that there is a return to childhood in old age?? LL

That is interesting you think they are soft and squishy. Did you try them on? I have the 3.0 and find them very hard and need to brace myself every time my feet land. The rubber doesn't compress at all and I am no lightweight - they've done over 1300km and show little sign of wear. I took the insole out but I think they were still hard with it in and nothing like flats. More like a lightweight trainer.

I am hoping they will wear out soon so I can buy the Adizero PR.

sigh.........

I loved that shoe but it stopped loving me.

Timbo76, so you haven't yet come to know the joys of 2XU shirts, kathmandu goretex jackets, magnesium (amino acid chelate), cod liver oil and zinc? Can I sell these to you too.

Tim, glad you think that is a bit much, was worried I was getting soft.

RodN, They don't feel soft running, the sensation of zero pressure directly under the ankle and pressure in the arch is fantastic. Just don't do 4 x 21km in quick succession.... Lesson learned....until I attempt 100km in them on the weekend....

now that's my kind of crazy

Yes. They're the next best thing to barefoot running. Don't kids run barefoot before they become teenagers? With the Frees you don't have to worry about running on broken glass or the odd sharp stone.

I'm still running in my original blue/yellow Frees - the uppers are absolutely cactus, but they're still lovely to run in. Would have run well over 1000ks in them. Strange thing is, they become a better "barefoot" shoe the older they get. They still have the flexibility, but not quite the cushioning of a new pair (I have two newer pairs of 5.0s, one not used yet). The only minor problem is stone pick-up on gravel roads. I've raced 14k on the road - may try 21k in the new ones. I'm 73-75kg, so much lighter than Tim.

I can't speak highly enough about them - the best shoe ever invented.

Sorry to highjack.

Nike Lunar Trainers / racers, what about those as an alternate to Frees?

Kelvin tried them out for GC100 and fell over and broke his arse. But before that he tells me they are very similar just more cushioning. I think the heel hight must be the big issue. But they do not have anywhere near the sex appeal of the 5.0 reds with a pair of knee high 2XU socks....

BTW, I am approx 70kg so not a feather weight

Oh yes, I got the 5.0 because I was too chicken to get 3.0, the 7.0 is obsolete and Kelvin said the everydays were not as good. So reading between the lines, I am just a sycophant and do whatever previous Trailwalker Teammates tell me to do (except Maggot, I have to run his suggestions by my wife first)

Thanks Ewen for your reply, I ordered a pair for myself & for my son yesterday.
Looking forward to run in them!

If buying all that means I can become a runner of your caliber count me in, maybe i could have all your stuff second hand. I think there might be more to it than just buying the gear though. Still, you can always start another few threads......

Timbo76, I am trying to use caveman theory to improve my running. Compression socks, minerals and unsuportive shoes fit in that category. Give the body what it needs to help itself and get stronger. I think that is why the Free's are so appealing.

I am not sure caveman had compression socks.

can you prove they didn't..... look at those big ug boots on the lynx deodorant add, surely they compress.

Well alright its not that good an example, but the idea is to just help the body help itself, compression socks do that, but that is on a different thread.....I will be downing about 13 endura gels this weekend, that doesn't really fit in my theory either... Now I'm really confused, tell me what my strategy is? Short term discomfort avoids long term pain????? I give up, I'll just do what the TW guys and any health professional that runs ultras tells me to do.

You still wearing shoes Rob? Cripes, that is so passe.
I would have thought you'd have progressed to barefoot running by now. Try the Nike Free 0.0's... again, preferably on cement or rough trail. Just $165 for a set of transfer tattoos of the Nike logo. Or in your case, you could sew them onto your sox .

Just on the Free's.
Has anyone else had issues with the sides of the upper blowing out and ripping around where your little toes sits.
I love running in them and have had 2 pairs of 5.0's and one pair of 3.0's, but theyall all seem to split open at that point well before the sole wear out. (Once this happens I usually just wear them with the hole for walking around the house etc).
Also when are Nike going to set up a Aust Online store where you can create the ID free's, or even allow international postage off the US website? It'd be great to design your Free's!

fortunately I ran this by my wife and she said I probably shouldn't observe your advice. She told me that I should give you a dose of whoop ass at you yangs and the tan 100 though.

yep that was what happened to my red ones and now I see it with the black ones I am running in. I still ran in the red ones and even added a bit of duct tape but eventually I thought 2000km+ is pretty good and bought a new pair.

I am reminded of a pair of Kelvin's I sighted recently, held together with a friggin' safety pin . And I thought he was a Rolling Stones man, not a Sex Pistols kinda guy .

Well I have discovered today that you can run 100km in a pair of frees on mix of surfaces , and they pick up lots of stones. I don't know if they made me faster or slower as I hadn't done that run before but it was a PB of 9:23 (previous was 11:44). knee stuffed up at 16km but came good at about 31. The big difference was that I didn't get any calf cramp so the 2XU socks were just for decoration.

Is there some exclusive club I can join now?

Yeah: AURA . I'll teach you the secret handshake even.
Awesome time there Rob. Shaping up well for the 'Rumble In The Jungle' down at the Youies. And I'll be disappointed if you race not wearing the stockings, it'll be so much more the sweeter running past them .
With the Frees, (seriousish now) how did the shoes perform over that time and distance? Was the cushioning adequate? Did you notice the lack of motion control? The nice light weight will probably leave you as a racing flat or lightweight shoe convert.
Maggotman

yep happened with my first pair (red I think) then twice in the side in the black ones (after sprinting) - bought 2 new pairs (now red again) in UK a few weeks' ago and they have a cover over the toe and an (annoying, tight) band from the middle to the inside sole - these could be an attempt at strengthening because of those problems

Maggot, cushioning seemed adequate but I am used to doing around 2500 km in a pair of shoes because I am usually too tight to get a new pair. But what I noticed most is my heels didn't get the crap pounded out of them. You can feel pressure just before the heel which I thought may cause a blister (it didn't). I really enjoy that sensation where it is like all the hard bony bits of your feet are nicely preserved and its soft springy parts of the feet take all the load. my arches were my biggest concern and I could feel them working but they just didn't get agro. And the down hills are soooo much easier because you don't get tipped forward, I am looking forward to going over some TW trail just to get an even comparison.

Don't worry about the super socks being in action at youies, still don't trust my calves to behave going up hill. I am sure you will go past me at some stage, they always let second place on to the podium before the winner goes up, Or are you going to push me over near the dunnies like what you did to Kelvin

If my cunning plan works out, it's the inside of the dunnies you need to be worried about.
All I'll say at this stage is that Brettsrun is currently sourcing some 'special chocolate' for your exclusive use at the aid stations to wash down with some magic water that may or may not have a high magnesium content .
And to stay on topic, it sounds as though your feet are adapting really well to the Nike Frees.

and BANG goes the hip on the way into work at 14km. only way I could keep going the last 7 was to run on tip toes.....eeek what a disaster, my lower leg and feet feel so good. Ok this might have happened regardless of shoe as I have upped the distance and I got my knee straightened out which may have refered to the hip now the knee is stronger.

So they might not have cured everything after all and I still need to run within my ability, magic gone now, back to reality.

It is still a love affair, just the honeymoon is over

Ouch, hey Rob, hope it comes good.
You still looking at a training run at you yangs 5050, was thinking of heading out there again on the bike
Possibly July 11th, if not before, may even try to sneak out this Sunday, although I should be elsewhere between 10-11:30

Oh Yeh, Maggot - Chocolate arrived, tested, 30minute turn around result or should that be flow on effect
I dont know about Nike Free for Running, but this Chocoalte will have "You Running Freely" and very very fast..

good news, as the morning has worn on it appears to be the same injury as the one I just ran the 100km with, its just refered to the hip instead of the knee.

Weekend of 11th is good for me, that is when I planned on going out there, I just hadn't got around to letting anyone know for fear of being force fed suspicious chocolates.

Hi, I will be keen to head to the you yangs on the 11th. Was going to get in a run there before YY5050 so may join you if you dont mind. About 30-32km looks to cover all tracks involved.